The Brexit Arms - All welcome. :-) :-)

[surferjet]

So .....how are we all this evening?

Yes but you are forgetting something.
If we had PR, they would have won 82 seats!

But we don't.
And for all it's faults FPTP stops the far right from gaining proper traction here.

Although I've noticed that there's been a resurgence of a demand for a PR voting system, ironically amongst Remainers.

So in France, Le Penn has had to shelve her ideal of a Frexit referendum as there isn't an appetite for it

In her big speech the other week she promised a Frexit ref within 6 months if she got in (iirc - although I may well be mistaken, I'm not 100% sure on that)

But anyway, back to the point - if these far right people get in in the NL, France and heaven forbid, Germany, then it will be the end of the EU but that will be the least of our problems then.

Agree, but I think the number of people who actually, really want that to happen is vanishingly small in UK, which is why the near hysteria re Leave voters and 'what they're really like' is irritating at best, dangerous at worst.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't disagree with much of what you said MO4D - I genuinely hope that the EU does overcome the bumps that it is experiencing at the moment, and that the far right is neutralised, I hope the EU is successful.
However, I truly believed and believe that UK is much better off unhitched to that wagon going forwards, hence voting to Leave last year.

Think I've just earned another £25 for that long post...!!

so what do you suggest then mo4d?

that all of the disgruntled people, fed up with their lot, are hammered down to accept more of the same? that their disgruntlement matters not (since they are viewed as grunts I suppose, by the elites?)

And don't suggest change from within.

Yes, UK politics have been shit for years and we have struggled since lehman collapse etc, but that is not to say that once out of the EU that we cannot effect change...after all we elect our political representatives to do our bidding.

MO4D I prefer to think of it as politicians harnessing and addressing existing discontent expressed by a majority .

You can't stir something thats not there.

and that the far right is neutralised

Semi MERKEL is desperately trying to back pedal on her Migration policy, over 190,000 were rejected asylum seekers last year and only 26 thousand were deported. She is going hell for leather to build special holding buildings for failed asylum seekers and trying to toughen up deportation process.
The failed system was highlighted by the Berlin trucker.

There seems to me to be a separation between old fashioned governments by the people of the people, now its Of the EU for the EU and you little people will just have to put up with it.

I agree semi - its silly in the UK and dangerous elsewhere to call this a far right up rising. Its just people saying - we want to be governed by people who put us first.

I do feel for the sort of airy fairy - lets ignore what we don't want to hear remainer though. It must be a very depressing time for them.

Ooops sorry Bored - you just put it far more succinctly than I

I prefer to think of it as politicians harnessing and addressing existing discontent expressed by a majority YY.

Wrong, I saw your chatam thing in paper - basically conclusion was, The peoples across the EU have more support for Trumps Ban, than with their own governments ideals.

Oh and I believe that Leavers, the majority voters want a hard brexit because its the only brexit there is where we totally dis engage from the swollen dying monolithic beast that is the EU.

I agree with Debs!

"yep, me too. They now suspect us of being Mrs Gove."

No, they don't, that's not what was said at all!

If its arrogant to suggest it - then it must also be extremely arrogant to suggest otherwise

Why on earth would anyone vote to leave the EU when in actual fact we still be knee deep in its morass.

Merkel took an extremely laid back view of Migrants last year, now she is working to ensure the right migrants enter her country and stay. Looks like back peddling to me.

I think we both share that difficulty Mother, I can barely understand your posts.

Why would anyone want to vote leave ( then opt for a soft brexit) and still be knee deep in its morass.

Is that clearer?

we do deserve to know who actually wants a hard brexit before that is what we are given

well you do know! everyone who voted leave!!

in or out question!

One thing we do know is that the majority of MPs are remainers

That speaks volumes too - rich elite voting for themselves.

Give up Motheroffourdragons - you're wasting your time here, we're ecstatically happy that we're leaving the EU. Nothing - & I mean nothing you say is going to change that.

I am heartily fed up of hearing Remainers bang on about the 48% NOT BEING LISTENED TO - in the same breath as advocating ignoring 52% of voters.

I expect the poor MPs are breathing a sigh of relief now that the sustained email campaign has switched its target to the Lords.

Something for the weekend!

(Prepares for the usual 'but we've not left yet' chorus from the near-sighted posters )

Mrs Gove might be amongst us leavers but I think Mrs Clegg might be amongst the other lot.

But you cannot deny that the far right is on the up at the moment. Otherwise as you say how on earth would UKIP get 80 odd MPs if we had PR

As I said before, UKIP are not the far right, however much you desperately want them to be.

There are a few amongst their number obviously, who have latched onto them as BNP/EDL are a dead duck, but UKIP are a single issue party who are no longer relevant once UK has left EU.

YY its worrying our MPs are so out of touch, could have lead to real trouble had we not voted Leave. Phew

Bored perhaps if you posted that on WM thread it would be really interesting to read the usual negative spin, its un relenting isn't it. No matter what positive news there is a remainer there to turn it into a dark and dreadful thing

Well put Semi

Debs I already did