The Brexit Arms - All welcome. :-) :-)

[surferjet]

So .....how are we all this evening?

And what's all this about emotional blackmail?

I'm putting forward an alternate viewpoint - e.g. yes we are leaving, but this aspect of the way it's being handled is shitty and beneath us! You can agree with leaving but also disagree with the way it's being handled

Treat the people of the UK like some massive experimental joke & you have to expect pay back

The whole EU project is one huge experiment isn't it. And Blair embraced it heart and soul above the needs of his own people. The poor people of the EU.

'Do you care about the 'British born' kids that have one British parent and one EU parent? Or they don't count?'

No.

If you're married to a Brit that's usually straight forward.

I don't like your shaming technique Little.

Care more or you are the baddie!

"If you're married to a Brit that's usually straight forward" - can you clarify?

That's not my understanding - I don't think it is a guarantee of anything. If I'm wrong I will be glad to hear it!

And stop being so dramatic. I haven't said you are a baddy.

This is an issue which is concerning me. I am allowed to discuss it! I haven't used any inflammatory language or called anyone any names.

LPH the ref was in June. People have had 8 months to deal with this. Surely the fact that they haven't got citizenship suggests that they had no intention of permanent residence in UK?
The EU will not discuss ahead of the serving of the A50 and you cannot blame TM or the government for that.
If TM gets agreement for a bilateral agreement ahead of departure then all and good.
If not, those affected will have up to two years to regularise their position.

He admitted he had a sense from several discussions at the time that there was a subsidiary purpose of boosting diversity and undermining the right's opposition to multiculturalism, but Neather insisted it was not the main point at issue.''

That's ok then.

It wasn't the main point, it was just a 'subsidiary purpose'.

Fawful you and I have alternative truths.

'And stop being so dramatic. I haven't said you are a baddy.'

You have written several posts with this shaming technique implorig that we care more or if we don't we should feel bad.. Well sorry but I don't. I actually think we need to learn to care less about Europe and keep our own house in order first. The Brits have a history of playing the heroes - it's a very grandiose mind set and we can't afford to carry on like that. We get taken advantage of anyway. We need to establish boundaries - not care more!

bored - I don't think it's that simple. The process is long, expensive and they are hitting bureaucratic walls. The backlog is huge. It's disingenuous to say that they have no intention of staying. It would have been impossible for 3 million people to apply for permanent residence in 8 months.

Anyway I'm bowing out. I think once we have some guarantees in place I'll feel a whole lot better about this.

That's your argument that you wanted out of White Fortress' EU because it's not diverse enough pretty much refuted though, if you think it would have been 'a joke' to want to expose British people to other cultures, whatever they are.

Being married makes no difference btw.
Some people don't believe in marriage, as is their right. And It takes more than 8 months to get citizenship.

The Brits have a history of playing the heroes - it's a very grandiose mind set and we can't afford to carry on like that

Interesting. So the bits of being British you'd like to claim back, and that wonderful sense of Britishness and British identity.... that would be a selective and revisionary Britishness which does away with any sort of empathy or generosity we've shown in our 'history'?

Cf. the Dubs amendment, I guess.

Inkanta - I haven't tried to shame anyone. I've tried to understand but clearly that is pointless as any dissenting view is not allowed. As I said, you can support leaving but be critical of the process.

I read both this and the Westminsters thread in the aim of balance and to reduce the echo chamber effect.

'Britishness which does away with any sort of empathy or generosity we've shown in our 'history'?'

There you go again with we don't CARE enough!

We as a nation need to learn how to care LESS about things that don't concern us. We need to learn how to keep our noses out. We are so easy to shame and we lose track of our priorities at home. Look at the poor NHS at the moment - it's in a right mess!

yeah, it's just based on the fact that you've said you don't, though, Inkanta.

How do we decide what concerns us? If it happens on our shores we do, and if it doesn't we don't?

But anyway, don't worry about the NHS - we've got all that lovely money coming in, remember? Because it was only the EU, and not Tory ideology, that was strangling it before.

Poverty and war and natural disasters and suffering and violence do 'concern' many people, even if they don't happen in the UK, Inkanta. We won't make the UK better by hardening our hearts to the rest of the world.

'But to be fair, it does seem like many of you don't. Disappointingly'

'Disappointing' is a shaming word isn't it!

But to be fair, it does seem like many of you don't. Disappointingly

Yes but the same could be said of some remainers.

Slough council memorandum clearly sets out the immediate impact upon the people of slough of Blairs mass immigration.

Who you do you care about Mother? Your living over seas perhaps in a precarious situation so perhaps your worried - understandably about your immediate future.
I care about communities like Slough and I don't understand why they had to go through the sheer hell of chaos and under-funding that they did .

I get the impression if we are going to compete in the caring stakes - that not many remainers give a thought to those communities. If you did you would understand the actual impact on day to day life of people living under the weight of massive - rapid population growth. And you would understand that its not sustainable.

'We won't make the UK better by hardening our hearts to the rest of the world.'

We're too bloody soft and the world knows it, - and knows how to push our buttons.

Charity starts at home - we've stuff to sort out here!

seek as a swing voter who is not entrenched in party politics - hating one side for the sake of it sort of thing....I see a long line of disasters affecting the NHS but in my history it was Blair who destroyed our local hospitals.

It can help to step away from a subject and look at it with fresh eyes.

Interesting that some posters feel we have such a huge impact on the rest of the world, and others feel we are insignificant as a rain drop in a thunder storm.