The Brexit Arms - All welcome. :-) :-)

[surferjet]

So .....how are we all this evening?

Blame Blair for Brexit.

Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed

The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett

Treat the people of the UK like some massive experimental joke & you have to expect pay back.

Well lefties you've got it.

Brexit here we come. 🍾🍾🍾🍾

I'm looking forward to a response to my post... (but not holding my breath)

This is what I find frustrating and is stopping me from feeling positive about Brexit.

There is such a head in the sand approach to anything that doesn't fit the 'woohoo it's great' narrative.

Playing with the lives of people who legally made lives here in good faith is shit. How am I supposed to have any faith in post Brexit Britain if we can't even have the moral fibre to protect these people? British children whose mothers/fathers don't know whether they will legally be allowed to stay?

I want things to work out, but how can I trust a government that behaves this way?

Is it OK to punish these people as 'payback' for a previous government policy?

Anyone from the EU who has made their life here should be allowed to stay imo - Brexit is all about going forward & how me manage things in the future.

Yes surfer - but can you concede that even though that is your opinion, they may not be allowed to say? The government won't guarantee it and in order for it to be effective as a negotiation card there is a chance they will lose their rights.

Are you happy with that as a risk?

*allowed to stay

"I don't look at the other thread, too much like hard work, & for what? All that effort in typing out posts a mile long, & for what? no one cares.
We're leaving the EU.
DT is president.
Get over it."

You are funny Sur!

It's a silly question. I guess you are happy that the bill has been passed without amendments, therefore you must also be happy that there are no guarantees for EU citizens.

I just truly hope this is the first thing that is addressed post article 50 and that it's all OK.

'Playing with the lives of people who legally made lives here in good faith is shit. How am I supposed to have any faith in post Brexit Britain if we can't even have the moral fibre to protect these people? British children whose mothers/fathers don't know whether they will legally be allowed to stay?'

Oh give over telling us to care more and then care some more and more about everyone who isn't British born. The Brits don't have to be the heroes anymore and take care of everyone that wants taking care of.

If they can stay - then good, but leaving the EU is about boundaries and that's the way it is.

Nice attitude there Inkanta.

It is clear that a lot of you don't care. At least you are honest about it.

Do you care about the 'British born' kids that have one British parent and one EU parent? Or they don't count?

It's not about Britain being a hero. It's about having some decency and doing the right thing.

That's more of a crazy conspiracy theory surfer (I thought you guys on this thread believe Remainers were the ones who didn't like diversity, whereas Leavers are truly multicultural? 'Rub your nose' in multicultural ism?)

''A former Labour adviser at the centre of claims that the government secretly encouraged mass immigration to turn Britain into a "truly multicultural society" and undermine the Tories today made clear "there was no such plot".
The shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, challenged ministers in the Commons today over remarks by Andrew Neather, a former speechwriter to Tony Blair and special adviser to Barbara Roche when she was immigration minister.
But Neather, now comment editor of the London Evening Standard, said an article he wrote in the aftermath of the television appearance of the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, had been twisted out of all recognition.
"There was no plot," said Neather. He pinpointed a shift in immigration policy in 2001, when he wrote a speech for Roche outlining changes to make it easier for skilled workers to come to the UK. The speech followed a sensitive report on migration from the Downing Street performance and innovation unit.

"Multiculturalism was not the primary point of the report or the speech. The main goal was to allow in more migrant workers at a point when – hard as it is to imagine now – the booming economy was running up against skills shortages," Neather wrote in the Standard.
He admitted he had a sense from several discussions at the time that there was a subsidiary purpose of boosting diversity and undermining the right's opposition to multiculturalism, but Neather insisted it was not the main point at issue.''

I know lots of people whom the FOM changes will affect, both in the UK and in the EU. Some of whom are relatives. It is a shame that there can't be a guarantee for everyone presently living in the UK but the EU haven't given any guarantees either. I think the key to this is the sooner we enact article 50 the better for all these people so the negotiating can begin and the uncertainty can end.

I totally agree that people who have made their life here (and the same for Brits in other EU countries) should be allowed to remain or apply for dual citizenship. It's crazy they should be retrospectively be punished or removed due to a change that took effect after they moved countries for work.

But isn't the problem that it can't be guaranteed right now in writing due to the risk or enormous numbers arriving before we finally exit the EU? I thought that was the stumbling block, as well as a lack of reciprocal agreement from other member states. Apologies if I have that wrong and if I do have it wrong, then I agree it's not acceptable.

I just cant blame Brexit for this Little.

I blame the way in which FOM was gone about in the first place was all wrong, and cart before horse.

Now, yes rights should be guaranteed. But all the in qualities in the countries in the EU should have been addressed and thought about before FOM was allowed. In the respect of the mad rush to get here from poorer EE countries which made the migration so in balanced. It was never an issue from countries of similar wealth.

It was all so utterly shoddy and thoughtless and crass. Now families are caught in the cross fire. BLAME the EU. Get angry at them.

Going to post this here since Surfer is right about the complete unwillingness on the other thread to engage with the issues - enough to bring out the DTs in anyone.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/09/cant-stop-brexit-plan-better-britain-labour

Pretty good first stab at what sort of Labour Brexit I would like to see emerging.

Well I agree with you there Corcory, I just want the uncertainty to end.

Unfortunately I am not assured it's going to end well.

I think there was a chance for us to take the higher ground and show that. as a country, we are better than this. That would have been the right thing to do and would have helped us in negotiations. This isn't a poker game. Everyone knows our cards as we have stated them. We have nothing to gain from playing with people's lives.

Little - in my family we are spread out all over the world. Its been par for the course for family to be split up, up agaisnt un fair rules etc struggling agaisnt this or that countries immigration rules.

Little - we need to care more about those who already live here! That's our priority. That's common sense.

Your emotional blackmail argument doesn't work. The Brits are not heroes - we have had a reality check about that, thank god, and realize as much.

Agree Corcory. The sooner the deal is agreed the better for everyone surely.

We have nothing to gain from playing with people's lives.
No we in the Uk don't no but the EU clearly did and does.

Debbie - we can't change the past. We can change what we do now. The government could easily set a cut off date (i.e. the referendum date) to stop an influx now.

FOM is stopping, that is clear. We don't need to complain about that now. The government have chosen to put families in the crossfire by their refusal to take the higher ground.

Top Post Surfer 11.58

Inkanta: Little - we need to care more about those who already live here!

That's what I'm saying surely

Bored, 'top post' even if it's based on a lie?
Howabout, it doesn't look like Surfer is a leftie.
Re: Labour, well they have been wanting broadly the same thing forever and people don't vote for them at GEs, so what can anyone say?