Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

semi, could you answer mothers question about why you see TMs prompting of DT to nod in the right place as 'hugely significant' in terms of him commiting to NATO

I'm not well versed in this Peregrina however, America First, the organisation on which this administration(May, Trump, Erdogan) founded tried to overthrow Roosevelt's administration in 1934. Roosevelt( many of whose policies were humanitarian and socialist) later committed to liberating Europe from fascism, and building a coalition of allies against fascist axis. Marshall and Bevin were among the signatories of it in 1949.

Strangely, the opposition from America First is absent from searches but you can imagine why a cross Atlantic commitment to international liberalism to defend against fascism and communist totalitarianism might not be their 'cup of tea'

I did answer that Bear.

Semi I would love a united Ireland (and so would the author of the article)
I've suggested before that this is a good time for it. A Brexit deal would be much easier
The convolutions to avoid breaking the peace agreement (at least as Irish Republicans & Nationalists see it) are horrendous.
And if dissident Republicans start bombing the City of London again, it would be the last straw for the financial industry.

I'm sure the rEU and the UK could jointly agree to financially suppory such a small country

I've always been against referenda (and I don't want another EU one; we lost)
The elected MPs in Westminster can agree it no longer wants NI as a part of it.

semi I saw you answered why we'd want the US to remain committed to NATO but not why you think DT nodding when TM prompted him means that he is.

The Norwegian prime minister said before Brexit, 'Britain won't like life outside the EU' speaking from experience.

Probably time to ask the Israelis how they find life surrounded by fascistic chaotic nations. Britain won't like that either.

Watching with fascination as Greece, the front door to Europe for the Saudi supported and Trump mates Daish enters. If this debacle leads as it looks like not just to fascist gov in France, growing support for AFD in Germany, then how about Golden Dawn's opportunity to take Greece, only 40 years after democracy was restored on the beautiful country.
Northern Europe won't like that either.

But as NATO is a waste of money like the EU, we'll be free to enjoy the benefits of britain's brexit army to defend us.

Europe urgently needs sufficient armed forces of its own to handle internal peace-keeping, e.g. if the Balkans flair up again.
When Yugoslavia broke up, the US decided its interests weren't at stake and only intervened after much slaughter
Trump would never help if there's no money in it for him / the US.

The alarm about an "EU" army was really stirred up by the EU talking about a force to deal promply with such internal conflict, with units of its members designated for this role.
Those units would not be merged - Noone wants to mix different languages and systems in a tower of Babel.

After all the trust that Scottish voters place in English promises to swallow the independence vote and after the dignity and statesmanship of the peacemakers in Ireland, May is proving what British commonwealth nations have known all along about the pestilent amorality of the english.
Vile.

So Trump is blamed for ISIS now too, is he?

France is part of NATO now so no free ride there.
The reason why France didn't join NATO for years is varied but included

• the USA attitude after the WW2 and in particular the wish for the US to put France under their thumb (remember for example that the US didn't recognised De Gaulle's government for more than two years when all other countries had).
• the follow on from that which was the very strong feeling that the US just wanted to rule the world their way and a very strong reaction against it as well as a wish to remain independent. This is one of the things that also drives the wish to have a nuclear power too, which makes France one on the only two countries in Europe to have nuclear arms.

The issue never was about not paying to have a free ride. It was about keeping your independence from the US when NATO was seen as an arm of the US to put countries 'under their wing'.

And can you imagine if NI left the UK, and Scotland was still forced to stay ? I think that would be the point when the world had really gone mad.

Nobody is forcing Scotland to stay
Where on earth did you get that idea from?

But as NATO is a waste of money like the EU, we'll be free to enjoy the benefits of britain's brexit army to defend us.

Not sure of your point here tbh.
NATO isn't a waste of money.

France is part of NATO now so no free ride there.

Are they paying the amount they signed up to though?

Good news is the number of posters on lots of threads here inspired by great stuff, thanks red and all, and on the US ones, to get involved and take action.
So thanks and let's keep at it.
Educate, agitate organise as they said in a country where skin colours were graded, and love between races was illegal.
Got a man imprisoned on an island out, and he want on to be the president of a free democratic nation.

As in, are they committing 2% of GDP spending?

And you've still not answered my question

It is frustrating though isn't it?

I would genuinely like to see the positives in the situation we are currently in but there are never any answers when challenging points like why TM's meeting with DT was 'hugely significant' wrt NATO

And this nod of Trumps

The one where he absolutely wont go back on his word (although he didnt use word)

Was it a thoughtful nod...same one i give my children when i havent been paying attention to them and i now realise i should be doing somthing

Or was it a my nod is my bond type nod

Or a churchill the dog nod

#alternative nods

Semi I can't speak for anyone else, but in international law secession is illegal unless the whole country allows for it and provides for it. So unless Westminster gives them another referendum and then implements it or there is some kind of armed conflict which ends in redrawing of the boundaries by treaty? I would say the Law of Nations was forcing Scotland to stay in the U.K.

Or was it a dozing off (fuck me you are boring) nod

If Trump nods, then that's as good as a yes, and a yes from Trump is the truth because Trump doesn't lie. He doesn't lie over imitating disabled people, he doesn't lie about imprisoning Hilary, he doesn't lie about numbers at his inauguration, he doesn't lie over 'muslim ban' (it was a muslim ban/now its not a muslim ban)
Trump is a guy who sticks to his word.

Bizarre.