Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

That Newsnght programme made me so angry. Dacre can effectively brainwash half the nation and there's nothing that can be done about it by politicians but suck up to him.

as far as NATO and since that is all May came home with, she might as well not have bothered going.

I happen to think the NATO thing is hugely significant, and even if that was all she came back with then it was absolutely worth it for that alone.

I suspect the EU & the rest of NATO feel the same tbh.

That Newsnght programme made me so angry.

Me too.
It made me angry that a Prime Minister was so arrogant that he felt he had a right to try and exert control over our free press.

Not fucking acceptable.

semi she came back with nothing more than words. That's not 'hugely significant' given the person who said them.

DT can and probably will change his mind about the US commitment to NATO and then what will TM do other than whine 'but you said'

It was the fact that she got him pinned on it in front of the world, on camera, that is significant.

This is a man whose actions have been entirely consistent with his words so far.

#alternative facts

Just going to sprinkle this round like confetti

I have started doing it in real life which is really annoying the children

I also told them they could only have one biscuit #hardbrexit

They hate me

It was the fact that she got him pinned on it in front of the world, on camera, that is significant

I don't see that as significant at all. He didn't say it off his own back, she prompted him.

He has already flip flopped on NATO during his campaign trail and can easily change his mind again citing the fact the US are bank rolling it.

Exactly semi and I think the message was that he would honour his commitment to NATO on the basis that other nations would honour theirs...and cough up. I took the NATO statements as a shot across the bows of the EU army ambition.

And the really funny thing

He didnt actually say it

Today we have reaffirmed our unshakeable commitment to this alliance. Mr President, I think you confirmed that you are 100% behind Nato.

I think you confirmed....very nice get out clause for him

And dont get me wrong i really, really hope that she has got this 'coup'

Mother, it's long overdue that other countries are held to their commitment quite frankly.
Why should America bankroll NATO so Germany, France et al can have a free ride?

Yes, she promoted him - very explicitly laid out the prompt too.
It's hugely significant.

Lol, prompted not 'promoted' obvs!

BigChoc your Irish Times article said that Brexit had achieved what 30years of armed struggle had failed to: united Ireland.

For all the idiotic flag waving and even more moronic war fetishism that has been a feature of english life for the last 7 years, international fascism knows no borders. We are all one under this one.

Item on Today programme about doctors forced, by Home Office, to reveal medical records. Public servants in Britain have been forced to reveal more and more data on their citizens to state forces in last 10years. Allegedly under tort and contract law, in fact it's a constitutional breach of UNCHR.

Also Brian Cox on Today programme, on Euratom withdrawal.
Of all the imminent threats apparent from this coup this is the most egregious.

1 It's been estimated it will take up to 10 years to set up independent controls on nuclear energy.
2 It puts in doubt future anglo-Chinese development
3 in the sublime Lake District we already have a leaky old Windscale, how safe are existing nuclear power stations.
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/27/uk-exit-eu-atomic-treaty-brexit-euratom-hinkley-point-c
'A coup is not just for Christmas' as they say in Rochester, Carolina and Moscow.

So, back to work,
11am Feb 4th American Embassy, again!

BigChoc your Irish Times article said that Brexit had achieved what 30years of armed struggle had failed to: united Ireland.

Would this be a bad thing?
If done properly, this could be a good outcome, surely?

If the people of NI were given a ref at the end of Brexit negotiations as to reunification or not, with the two options clearly defined,
For eg:

United Ireland, therefore remaining within EU:
Britain to provide the economic support and input until such time as the re-unification process is complete; citizens still able to be British citizens if they so choose, (either British only, or dual Irish/British citizenship); upholding of CTA.

Continue with NI as part of UK, but out of EU:
With the negotiations complete, the citizens of NI will know exactly what the set-up would be with no uncertainty.

Meaningless words.
The Appeaser didn't even have a scrap of paper to wave. At least Chamberlain managed that.

Other countries aren't impressed by May's "achievement": "toe-curling", "vassal state" are typical reactions.

They know Trump is mercurial and can change tack after any tantrum or imagined slight
Any time he doesn't get his own way, or the EU countries don't back his facts about say an "bad guys" having WMDs.

Any time they criticise US policy or bombing camoaigns
Or they don't not give preferential trade terms

He's given himself an easy getout clause:
the other nations will also be judged to not have honoured their obligations if they don't significantly increase the % of GDP on the military.
There is no public desire to increase taxes or reduce public services to increase the military

His objection to an EU army (which won't happen) is because he wants to keep Europe dependent on the US. So he is top dog

Even under sane presidents,
The Special Relationship has always been completely on US terms - a total power imbalance

I've never understood why Leavers who want to "take back control" from an EU where they only lost 2% of decisions, while being happy to give up control to the US, with no vote in the US Congress.

Why should America bankroll NATO so Germany, France et al can have a free ride?
Perhaps because the Cold War which NATO seemed to be a response to, was largely driven by the US?

I need someone better informed, like Ron, to give an opinion on this.

Astonishing that we are forfeiting rights going all the way back to the Magna Carta, revered across the world, held up in the US too as an icon of democracy, and some purple faced white men, are holding us to ransom.
www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-and-human-rights

The fact that MPs have treated lobbying with contempt and ignorance is significant:
1 Cock up or conspiracy in their refusal to engage with democratic debate?
2 Justifies lemmings voting for cakes, racism, flags, penury and almost certain war.

I'm not sure we need to worry too much about our withdrawal from Euratom because we can all rest comfortably, thanks to The Great Manipulator's hugely significant (albeit somewhat half-hearted and conditional) nod in the direction of NATO, cleverly wrested from him by skilled diplomat and new best friend TM.

Peregrina, NATO is a one-for-all, all-for-one set up.

As America is the biggest military power, it makes absolute sense for us to continue (UK and EU).

It is a set up which allows individual militaries to complement each other, rather than being forced into a one-size-fits-all set up which doesn't work when there is such disparity between the different militaries.

An EU army would never have the reach or might of NATO - and if countries don't find their military as they agreed now, then what do you expect they will do in the future?

Mother I am reading Prisoners of Geography. Greece has huge army / navy protect the coastline and islands.

Rufus I love your idea. I'll try #alternativefacts on DS.