Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

It's appalling how the Fail can swing an election/ referendum.

Pretty sickening stuff on Newsnight about Cameron/Dacre.

The sheer pointlessness of it all.

What did it say?

Left / right labels are meaningless when talking about demogagues who rise to power.
That's a major reason why it's so difficult to stop them.
And because they break all the rules the others obey
And because they lie all the time. Outrageously.

And once they are elected, they are even more difficult to stop, because they keep breaking the rules, but now they have the full might of the state at their command, to crush opposition.

This is from an article by one of the opposition who failed to stop Chavez (who was also helped by Putin iirc):

The recipe for populism is universal:

Find a wound common to many, find someone to blame for it.
Tell the wounded you know how they feel.
That you found the bad guys, the "elite", the minorities, the "other"
......
Make up a good story that starts with anger and ends in vengeance they can participate in.
Then paint yourself as the savior.
.......
Populism is built on the irresistible allure of a simple answer to an intractable problem:

focusing anger on a chosen scapegoat, a country or a group.
All the country's woes are because of Jews / Muslims / the "other"

Man snit destroys country.

Meanwhile another Labour twit warns of Farage's million man riot, if they can be arsed. We are talking about mainly middle aged white men, remember
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-article-50-labour-mps-riots-matthew-pennycook-a7555196.html

Emailing my MP, my parents' MP, a load of UKIP MEPs (stressful day at work) and pondering what to do next. I thought of starting a petition that Donald Trump be forced to divide his time exactly between holding hands with Prince Philip and holding hands with Prince Charles.

TatianaLarina first line, previous post, was a summary of news night story.

Can Theresa May call a snap election?

Agree BigChoc, an experienced and thoughtful administration would manage populist threats with intelligence, rather than succour. I would like us to call out unresponsive MPs.

Cecile, what's the constitutional custom and practice with the white paper, shouldn't it be available before the bill's voted on?

Isn't that 5 year rule repealable? I have been hoping for a stalking horse remainer tory to stand against her and a vote of no confidence. Snap election and a dream labour leader appears from a magic cake, and we wake up to a morning like that one in May 1997 again, sigh.

Not without difficulty: she would have to either get the opposition to agree to an early election or she would have to lose a vote of confidence. Labour apparently is so terrified of the A50 bill failing and her subsequently calling an early election that its MPs have been ordered to vote with the government. I suppose if Labour holds onto Copeland and Stoke in three weeks' time, they may feel emboldened and try to hold up the bill then .

Also, my MP - Labour, following the whip - used the word "Bremainer." I've objected to it in my reply, as it is journalese really

Pathetic.
What would Jimmy Knapp, Barbara Castle and Dennis Healey say about them, fucking disgrace.

On the White Paper: white papers don't really have any legal significance, but set out the framework for reforms and explain a bit more about them. With an ordinary bill, it would be nonsensical to present the White Paper before the legislation goes through because it would be like (for example) reading information about a house after buying it.
Here, however, what is going through is just the Bill giving the power to notify. In practice, it will lead irrevocably to our leaving the European Union, and the White Paper deals with the government's plan during that period, especially for the negotiations with the EU and perhaps other states. There will be separate Parliamentary debates and perhaps statues later, so it is all perfectly in accordance with constitutional practice if you completely ignore context and reality. It is the time limit and the structure of Article 50 which make it a logical nonsense to present the White Paper after giving the Prime Minister to notify. To botch another analogy, it is like placing a bid on something in an auction before you look at it or hear the price. You have committed to buy something but lost most of your influence on how it will happen. The timescale and the influence of the other 27 member states will place enormous pressure on MPs once the clock is ticking.

I am by no means convinced that there will be riots - Farage so far hasn't managed to get the big turnouts of the womans march last week, or last night's demos. Similarly May is scared of the Tory right, but, as I have said before, despite Farage turning up in person in Sleaford, they only managed a poor second.

We will need to see what happens in Copeland and Stoke, although if they have any sense the Labour party in Copeland will capitalise on May's dictat that the UK pulls out of Euratom, without consulting anyone in the industry, and thus potentially hitting the area's major industry hard. As for Stoke, - who knows? I can't imagine Nuttall will be popular.

May could repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act, like any other law.
She has a majority in the HoC and she might want to regain the power to choose the GE date

• and keep the threat hanging over Labours' heads that they could face electoral oblivion within a month of her choosing.

Although the Lords could hold it up because it wasn't in the manifesto (although one could say that of most things May is doing !)
Since she has no need for a GE atm, she would presumably wait for the 2018 boundary changes which might give her another 20 seats alone

Peregrina maybe if he brought some of his chocolates, more might come? I think that's the tragic irony of this here and in the US, the numbers of those involved in creating this mess are so small and useless at running anything.
Thanks Cecile that's really helpful, and the analogy explains it. After hundreds of years of painstakingly careful and sometimes daft governance, it seems even in purely constitutional terms, mad, to commit to the unknown like this.

Brexit, NI & Miscalculation by the DUP ?

The EU underpinned the willingness of much of the population to settle down within the current borders for the foreseeable future"

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-dup-has-done-the-most-for-a-united-ireland-1.2956656

"The English nationalists who drove Brexit don’t really care about the union – under the rhetorical covers, they will ditch Northern Ireland and Scotland if need be.

They were playing with loose change. The DUP was playing with the deeds to its house.

It has thus done more to advance a united Ireland than the Provisional IRA managed in 30 years of mayhem.

In the short term, there is likely to be a border for the movement of people that separates the island of Ireland as a whole from the island of Britain as a whole"

US Opinion on Trump's policies

Muslim Ban
Trump & Bannon must be happy
The available polls differ in %, but about half back it and less than that oppose it:

thehill.com/homenews/administration/316914-poll-over-half-back-trumps-refugee-ban

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-poll-popularity-favourability-us-voters-immigration-latest-a7553961.html

For nitpickers: Rudolph Guiliani stated that Trump wanted specifically to ban Muslims:
thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally

Climate Change
poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2416
Voters by 59 % vs 32% do NOT want Trump to reverse climate change measures
However, Republicans are in favour 52 vs 35%, so he'll go for it.

"The English nationalists who drove Brexit don’t really care about the union – under the rhetorical covers, they will ditch Northern Ireland and Scotland if need be.

Absolutely. Definitely ditch NI, Scotland they might pretend they want to hang onto. If the border is between NI and the rest of the UK then I would imagine it would reinforce a move towards a united Ireland, although I get the impression that no one really wants this at the moment.

How to Build an Autocracy

The preconditions are present in the U.S. today. Here’s the playbook Donald Trump could use to set the country down a path toward illiberalism.

Long article (I've only skimmed the start) but looks worth reading.

Re Climate change - don't some of the religious fundamentalists want it to happen because it will bring about the end of the world? At which point they believe they will be 'enraptured'. (Of course, they might not be; God might decide that since they are so smug and self-satisfied they can go to the other place for an eternity.)

An RoI view: Trump, May

Taoiseach should not do traditional POTUS visit on St Pat's:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-enda-kenny-must-not-meet-trump-on-st-patrick-s-day-1.2956789

"But something has changed. Surely we can see that the Trump regime is not the US we know and love, any more than Theresa May represents the Britain we value?

(The fact that May would dash from her toe-curling meeting with Trump to sign an arms deal with President Erdogan of Turkey who has locked up thousands of journalists and political opponents in recent months, tells us enough about where her government’s priorities lie.)

Trump has put before us not just a harsh vision of the world, but a new set of values, and on St Patrick’s Day we are being invited to sign up to them.

Undoubtedly they are his own values, but they are also the values of the white supremacists, reactionary conservatives and locked-and-loaded generals that he has chosen for his inner team."

Toe-curling really sums up my view of May's performance as PM

Can you imagine what Tony benn would have said about this labour omnishambles!?