Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

"Would our chums on the other thread want to be operated on by a plumber?
Or have their kitchen fitted by a dog groomer?
YES!!!!"

For some reason, I'm still chuckling at the paraphrased line "Darren from Sunderland can now finally become a neurosurgeon. The EU was holding him back."

Nothing about Darren or Sunderland in particular before someone takes offence. It could be anywhere. It is the stance of 'if the cat don't meow, blame it on Ned Kelly.'

What is the UK going to do now. The EU was the scapegoat for everything. Rain clouds, wrong leaves/snow on the tracks. No milk in the fridge for tea. Etc.. Darren's thwarted ambitions. Maybe if he had bloody studied or hadn't left school early.

I'm well aware, bear :( just thought I could try to salvage things here at least.

And amid the celebratory front pages, The Times recognises reality

cecile you can't salvage something when the level we're at is boreds 'bring on the fuck up, at least it's our own fuck up'

I agree Cecil...but so hard to take the high road when this shitshow will affect my kids for the rest of their lives
I am dreadfully upset
Not in a "wah! I didn't get my way!" way More in a "I think I need to leave the country of my birth as I'm too ashamed to stay" way

The shitshow is already affecting me personally (I'm early twenties, infertile, no money, long term BF left me in November, temporary job having lost one shortly after Brexit) and will for the rest of my life. But while I feel depressed, i don't want to despair. I can't despair or I will stop entirely.

I am amused by the way the Brexiters on here always mention their support for Frank Field. He has made some valid points about poverty and the effects of immigration on specific areas but I would be very surprised if he was on board with the type of "European Singapore /"Gig economy" post-Brexit future that Philip Hammond and Daniel Hannan have been touting. In fact, I believe wages in the gig economy is one of the issues he speaks passionately about. I hope he's working very hard somewhere behind the scenes to secure dome amendments to the Bill regarding these issues, otherwise the Lexiters like him will have a lot to answer for.

And I would leave if I could. But I have increasingly frail grandparents and parents and friends and my training (law) is jurisdiction specific. And I depend on the NHS. So I'm fucked.

some amendments, not dome

I'm not going to comment myself on what happened today apart from to say Ken Clarke deserves to a big round of applause.

Winston Churchill said that MPs should vote on what they thought was the national interest first, their constituency second and their party third.

We have had many MPs who have done the reverse today. That says something about the MPs we currently have.

And to double it up with this:

Law and policy ‏*@Law*andpolicy

MPs voting against what they believe to be national interest are a greater danger to representative democracy than anything from Brussels.
Just imagine what the same MPs would do after an advisory referendum for capital punishment. Or torture.
Or would that be 'different'?
The 'heavy hearts' and 'reluctance' are reminiscent of the Lib Dems protests when nodding-along with Coalition policies.

Put like that, no they should not have voted for it. Despite everything. Respect to people like Chris Bryant who followed Churchill's advice and Clarke's lead. As I have seen today, every MP knew Clarke was right as he gave his speech yesterday and that's one of the reasons his speech was no heckled or booed even though he was saying the 'unthinkable'.

Beyond that, I have nothing further to say.

Re: Paul Nuttall. I am very amused by C4 report tonight where Michael Crick said at the end that he had later been rung by Nuttall's team to be told that Nuttall had got some blankets and was bedding down at the rental property from tonight.

Crick was pointed out it was irrelevant as it was supposed to be his address at the time of nomination and it was too late to move in tonight.

I have this vision of Paul Nuttall miserably sleeping on an inflatable mattress in an empty house in Stoke tonight because he got found out and its totally pointless anyway, which is cheering me up no end. I hope he has a cold, uncomfortable and miserable night! (Is that mean?)

That and the fact that whilst Nuttall can not be disqualified from the vote at this point, he could have a problem if he wins because then he is in breech of election law, and C4 have a full confession on camera that he was not living there at the time of the nomination (he does not have to state his full address, he can just put the town or country that he lives in for security reasons Instead, in order to try and impress the locals he effectively put a full dodgy address down which he did not have to do).

And guess what! A complaint, has been made:
Michael Crick ‏*@MichaelLCrick*
Stoke returning officer told party agents tonight that a voter has already complained about Nuttall nomination paper. Handled after election

I'm not sure if I want UKIP to win or loose now! There seems to be pros and cons to both now.
(He'll have to resign as MEP too won't he if he wins? Wouldn't that mean a EU By-Election in the North West?).

Ho hum.

A small thing in the sea of political shit today which has included General Flynn saying the USA was 'putting Iran on notice' for firing a missile over the weekend. Just when you thought everything else was utterly awful, they go and throw that on the pile to make you go hide under the duvet.

Anyway, rumour is White Paper tomorrow.

I think I'm going to have a couple of days under the duvet as its all getting to me a bit, so I may/may not be around for a few days.

I can't wait to see what's in the White Paper although, the way things are going, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it was just a sheet of white paper.

From now on, the platitudes about Brexit being Brexit won't wash and Theresa has to deliver.

Bear in mind that it took Greenland 3 years to negotiate its exit, with 10 countries and only one major industry to consider, and with goodwill on both sides.

The UK is considerably more populous than Greenland, has more industry and services, has more countries to deal with, and has absolutely trashed any goodwill that could have been expected. Which suits their purposes because the Government can continue to whine that it's all the EU's fault, but it won't be.

So look forward to going vegetarian folks unless you want chlorine washed chicken, dig out your grannies health care remedies because the NHS will have been sold off (Mrs May promised it wouldn't be at PMQs today, so that is a guarantee that it will).

Is the choice "going vegetarian folks unless you want chlorine washed chicken"?

Or maybe I can buy chicken somewhere else...

My SNP MP in a 60% Remain area abstained.

I do hope he has a Cunning Plan.

Have to find a small organic farm then Jamie, or keep your own chickens - it's expected that many farmers would be driven out of business because the UK doesn't have the economies of scale to compete with the US.

It's a pity because public pressure has led to improved standards of livestock and poultry rearing and we will happily throw it away, because a deal with the US is needed.

The US doesn't like labelling chlorne washed chicken, or beef pumped with hormones

China doesn't like labelling its dairy products & ingredients: after its milk & baby formula scandal - 300,000 victims, 6 dead babies, 54,000 babies hospitalised

Oh that bloody EU and its red tape / safety standards & labelling

If we do end up with US beef flooding the country ... I strongly recommend you don't wash it down with vast quantities of red wine. The end result is most unpleasant.

How lucky your family are to have you, Cecile. Nobody knows how things will work out in the end. And I hope anyone who wants to dismantle the NHS will have a great bloody fight on their hands. Had to laugh at 'protect the NHS' on the UKIP banner in Michael Crick interview. They want to privatise it, don't they?

I was listening to some report. I can't remember if it was News or James O'Brien. The people leading and with a vested interest in Brexit and Trump are the 'haves' who want to dismantle the equalizing forces and protection of rights set in motion after WWII. In the UK the NHS, Welfare State and the EU were part of this. I'm sure those 20million covered by ACA in the US are delighted to become uninsured. As they have to sell property etc to cover medical bills, I'm sure some will still say Trump is standing up for them.

WRT the LBC interview with Guy De Verhofstadt, Farage said something along the lines that he wouldn't be taking a penny from EU after Brexit. Does that mean he won't be taking any goodbye money or pension? Or use his paid by EU health insurance etc.? It is queer to have someone who goes on about sovereignty and foreign influence to be wearing his trump badge. Does he believe he is an unofficial ambassador for the US, I wonder? While being paid to represent the UK in the European Parliament by EU taxpayers money? Sounds a bit compromising and would make you wonder where his loyalty really lies. Mind you he did turn up to insult people back in Europe after his being so involved in US affairs. Does he know he is British and is not representing the US, I wonder. Does he know the US is a foreign country?

Knowing the provenance of your meat will become even more important.

Trump has stated that he would be unwilling to meet Prince Charles instead of the Queen on his bigly visit
His head is as big as his arse.

However, what happens if the Queen is ill, which is not that unlikely at 90 ?
Or, um could possibly be a lot worse than ill, at 90

William & Kate - yes, they'd love to welcome him ...

So the simple answer is that it's Charles & Camilla or nothing, and let Trump call it off. Whatever you think of Charles, he is the heir to the throne and that is an insult.

YG/Open Britain poll on Brexit negotiations

“If Parliament decides that the final deal is NOT good enough, which would you prefer:,

The UK should leave the EU anyway, without a deal – 34%
The Government should continue to negotiate with the EU and seek a deal that Parliament can accept – 51%

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/do5u8qit9s/OpenBritainResults_170130_ExitNegotiations_W.pdf

Of course, the EU would likely be fed up with negotiating and say leave or suck it up

Skwawkbox again

No US work permit for Farage, it seems.

"It would appear that the US Immigration Service is not overly keen to facilitate Mr Farage’s television career and considers that he is a man of no particular ability or merit, nor represents anything worthwhile culturally. Considering even Piers Morgan got one, that’s quite a come-down."

No US work permit for Farage, it seems.
Hilarious. Which is no doubt why he was back in the EU Parliament. What is the provenance of Skwaskbox? Is what it reports true?