Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Oh man

elements

Its what you do with opinions you do not like over here, you bury them and dismiss them totally out of hand.

And that never ever ever happens elsewhere...

We all have "vested interests" in the EU - out economy depends on our trading relationship with it. As will become apparent soon enough.

"I know many remainers on here have personal vested interests in the Eu"

What does this mean?

TUC summarised workers rights at risk from Brexit

Oh wait, what do the TUC know ? Damn experts

https://www.tuc.org.uk/international-issues/europe/employment-and-social-policy/eu-referendum/tuc-report-outlines-workers’

The EU-derived rights outlined in the report include:
• The right to 20 days' paid annual leave a year.
• The right to not be forced to work longer than 48 hours a week on average.
• The right to paid time off for antenatal appointments; and protections for pregnant women and new mothers in the workplace.
• The right to up to 18 weeks' parental leave per child and to time off for urgent family reasons.
• The right to equal pay for work of equal value between men and women.
• The right to equal treatment for part-time, fixed-term and agency workers with other employees.
• The right for workers' representatives to be informed and consulted on significant changes that could affect jobs.
• The right to high standards of health and safety at work.
• Protections for workers affected by outsourcing or business buy-outs.
• Protections from discrimination in the workplace on grounds of sexual orientation, gender reassignment, age, and religion or belief.

Millions of workers have benefited from the EU-derived workplace rights covered in the report.
Examples include:
• Six million workers gained new or enhanced rights to paid holidays (two million of whom had previously had no paid annual leave.)
• Around 400,000 part-time workers, most of them women, gained improved pay and conditions when equal treatment rights were introduced.
• Landmark legal cases with far reaching effects for other workers have resulted from women becoming able to challenge unequal pay in workplaces where men and women were concentrated in different kinds of jobs.
• Some agency workers received a pay rise and improved holiday entitlements; and many workers on fixed-term contracts gained greater job security as a result of EU legislation.

under Brexit we will get more big business, more capitalism and more inequality. I ask again what have the Tories ever done for ordinary folk?

And Semi is telling porkies? Such very shocking news...

Debbie, please define a personal vested interest in the EU. Thanks :)

People don't like opinions over here, especially when they're touted poorly as facts. But all the feels guys, all the feels

It'll be interesting to see what "vested interests" that UK has with Trump's America. Now that May is reduced to rattling her Brexit begging bowl.

Its not something I want to be part of.

Calling someone a racist isn't burying their views, it is saying that they are prejudiced towards some people because of their origin or nationality.

They LOVE the orange one over on that thread
Mind boggling
Sexual assault, dodgy dealings and complete lack of intellect aside...
Bannon is on record during primaries as saying Trump is simply a figurehead for his alt right agenda

America first....makes a bit of a mockery of any UK/US trade deal doesn't it?
Unless they mean the selling off of the NHS of course
That's nicely on track...

The UK tried to block some of the workers' benefits I listed, e.g that Agency workers should have equal pay & holidays to regular staff

Would our chums on the other thread want to be operated on by a plumber?
Or have their kitchen fitted by a dog groomer?
YES!!!!
Fuck the "experts"!!
What do they know??
Goves U turn on the need for experts was straight out of "in the thick of it"
I kept expecting Malcolm tucker to pop up
Parody indeed

Ah good times are coming

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

Tryingtosaveup

"Oh, there will be champaign all right. Do you think the French will refuse to sell to us? Don't think so."

It's not Champaign but Champagne fyi.

The French may not refuse selling their lovely brew but British people might just have to try to save up for it as the price of Champagne will, no doubt, increase along with more essential goods. But you can always treat yourself to some local cider, so no worries.

Sorry but could we stop giving a shit what the other thread thinks

I have been popping between the threads for the last couple of days and its getting a bit childish

Also, don't be mean about cider. I drink cider, grew up in cider country and I'm a remainer. Other than that flippant remark, very depressed about tonight's vote. I have been in denial that it would happen but it appears that the bullies will get what they want. Very sad day for the UK and all its citizens.

Yes
A very sad day

Everyone can we just stop with the ad hominem now, both threads. I've been to look at the other one and everyone on it is just insulting everyone on here and the whole thing is a bit heartbreaking. This is the damage that has already been done. Everyone is at each other's throats. We can't expect anyone to listen or engage with anyone.

I hope this thread will keep going as I'm going to be optimistic and say it's not over til the fat lady sings. I think this may be the Brexit high point, so Brexiteers should enjoy their champaign.

From now on, the platitudes about Brexit being Brexit won't wash and Theresa has to deliver.

This time next year, it will all seem very different.

rufus I agree it is incredibly childish on that thread now.

The problem is the Leavers that contribute to this thread lately seem to be doing so only to wind people up by displaying an incredible lack of substance behind any point they make and then scuttling back behind the bike shed to report on their latest japes.

It would be nice not to give a shit what they think but sadly we will have to live with the consequences of their ill thought out pipe dreams.

My anger at Brexit isn't Brexit in principle:
in fact, if the hard right & far right hadn't been driving the campaign, although I would still have been very disappointed at a Leave result, I would have accepted it without much angst (but probably still gone to Germany for better prospects)

My anger is that Brexit has given control of UK destiny to the Tory hard right and the fascists in both the UK & US
They own Brexit
They have been empowered by it.

They have taken control and made it the hardest possible Brexit, instead of the soft landing that a 48% Remain vote deserved
But then the far right always put the boot in hard whenever they've "won"
They always regard any opposition as traitors who must be crushed

The far right is likely to be in power in the US for several years and the rightwing of the Tory party in the UK
They will change both countries permanently and the most vulnerable will suffer the most
I don't understand how anyone not of the hard right, let along Lexiters, can rejoice about that

cecile unfortunately we're on a slippery slope now, and I mean IRL, not MN.

I can't see how the gap can ever be bridged, there's just too much bad feeling and too few answers.

"Also, don't be mean about cider. I drink cider, grew up in cider country and I'm a remainer. "
Hey, I love a good cider! And naice Ale. will always be my favourite but It's nice to have choice and the occasional champaign .