Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

I don't know who they are (probably Banks trying to dispense of Farage) so definitely read with some caution. But good to have something to laugh at today. That, and Seb Dance's, "He is lying to you" sign.

Reposting that for general hilarity. Sleep well all.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke

All 3 of the SDLP MP's and Sylvia Hermon, Independent, voted against article 50 reflecting their constituency and NI's vote as a whole.

But both UUP MP's voted to trigger, along with the DUP. Tom Elliott's constituency was remain.

The DUP MP's who voted against both their constituency and NI's vote were Nigel Dodds and Gregory Campbell. Of course, the others voted against NI's wish taken as a whole.

Those who think the good jobs will come back and the good times will roll because Brexit should probably read this.

Will globalisation take away your job?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38600270

(I'm duplicating this long post which I just put in the NI thread because it's also relevant here. Apologies for the length and if any of this has already been discussed).

Call me a sad politics nerd but I watched the whole of yesterday's Northern Ireland select committee meeting with two customs law experts, here for anyone who is genuinely interested in the issues faced by NI and in particular what will happen at the NI/ Ireland border.

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/14a986d6-5d11-4797-a018-b924c496724b

It was fascinating, if only because it was an eye opener with regards to the limited intelligence and knowledge of some MPS. The Chair, Laurence Robertson, and Nigel Mills (both conservatives) are actually genuinely and eye-openingly thick! As well as astonishingly ill-informed about the basics of trade. Ditto one of the Unionist Party members whose name I didn't note. Lady Hermon (independent peer) came over as intelligent but clueless on the detail. Alasdair McDonnell (SDLP) was the only one who impressed me with his grasp of the issues.

Note that I haven't checked where any of these stand on the leave/ remain issue, although for two of them (Robertson and Mills) the questions were leading enough to be able to guess. Lady Hermon and McDonnell came over as much less partisan and much more concerned about the detail of how brexit will work.

The discussion was almost entirely about cross border trade, not movements of people. The latter is relatively easy to solve, the former fiendishly difficult. It's complex: I'm reasonably knowledgeable about trade (I'm an economist working for a large UK manufacturer and exporter) but I didn't know all of this. None of the MPs present, with the exception of McDonnell, seemed to be aware of the complications ahead of this Select Committee meeting and, worryingly, Mills and Robertson seemed unable to follow what was being said at least in part.

Much of the discussion revolved around what will happen, in practice, at the NI-Ireland border for businesses either exporting or importing goods, or shipping goods (mainly agricultural goods) across the border for processing, Some goods cross the border three or more times at different stages of processing.

The message was that unless NI remains in the EU customs union, there WILL be a hard border for goods. This is a requirement of EU customs law that Ireland will have to implement whether they like it or not. It means customs posts on the Irish side; whether the UK puts customs on their side is entirely up to the UK, but not doing so will cause losses of revenue to the UK exchequer due to fraud. There was much talk about the implications of this both practically (time to cross the border - customs declaration required to be made electronically at least one hour before, plus the time taken with physical stops at the border) and with regard to the costs for cross border trade - estimated at a minimum of 20-80€ per crossing.

There is no easy solution to this: the alternative is for NI to remain in the EU customs union, but in this case, the hard border moves to the NI-GB border. This makes more practical sense, because the volume of individual crossings is lower, but less financial sense, because the value of trade is higher.

Conclusion: NI is screwed by brexit every which way. Unless both NI and the rUK remain in the Customs Union.

Cecile agree with what Calleach said earlier: your family are lucky to have you, and we need constitutional lawyers like never before. Next steps are to try to preserve parliamentary sovereignty.

Agree with your post on workers' rights BCF.
Turkeys and Christmas.

Wonder how the queen regards her shrinking domain run by the westmonster party? The organ of choice on the mensa thread.

Wonder when Race Relations Act was repealed?
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/224280

On a lighter note, a shoe shop in a rather posh rural area where a friend of mind lives is advertising its extensive range of comfortable, practical footwear suitable for protest marches.

No word of a lie.

possibly (probably) fake news but being reported that israel has nominated trump for nobel peace prize

patty

There's still hope. At the most extreme we could have another world war us on the wrong side this time I suspect and I'm sure we're overdue a rapture

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/01/i-had-a-screw-it-moment-says-mep-who-held-sign-up-behind-nigel-farage

Have a better day everyone

Me too, mother.

Me too Mother. I used to love my country, have never particularly wanted to live elsewhere. Now I just feel so ashamed. This is not my country anymore and if I was 10 years younger I would be out of here like a shot. Tempted to move to a remote outer Hebridean island with no broadband. Anyone fancy starting up a colony on st kilda again?

I've just looked through the list of names who voted yes. Where was Diane Abbott? She didn't vote.

Then the final a50 vote of the night on an additional amendment, she's no where to be seen. And neither is Corbyn.

I'm sorry that makes me furious.

Have the guts to vote on what you think best rather than cowardly put your dear leader first.

And for Corbyn to seemingly fuck off early or have no opinion on another a50 vote?!

I confess I'm not a fan of hers in the first place and I think Corbyn has handled the whole thing badly but that really just boils my piss. Corbyn called a three line whip and expected people to put their necks on the line. And he fucks off before the third vote? I don't care if it wasn't as important as the other main vote. The subject was one of the most important in decades.

"On a lighter note, a shoe shop in a rather posh rural area where a friend of mind lives is advertising its extensive range of comfortable, practical footwear suitable for protest marches." Brilliant! Love it. #smart & subversive.

She abstained Red

I thought the story was Diane Abbot was taken ill so couldn't vote?

When people talk of proud traditions in politics what are they?

For me it's the human rights and voting rights that stand out. It's the international cooperation that is difficult to achieve.

That's what upsets me and frightens me now.

I'd like to say that history will judge this moment poorly but that's not necessarily the case. History is judged by the winners.

In this case the loosers may never be able to fight back because of how they will be treated now. And there is no great power to stand by them or say it's wrong.

The US are on the brink of rolling things back to before the civil rights movements.
If the supreme court judge is sworn in it could be difficult for a generation. There are two other judges in their 80s too. In this way Trump is irrelevant.

We in the UK are on the brink of burning our workers rights. I don't quite see why this is cause for celebration. The burn will come.

And don't even get me started on international cooperation. (sounds like Trump pretty much hung up on the Australian pm and then went on a Twitter mauling)

But still. I hope Paul Nuttall is feeling tired today. You sir are my whipping boy for my sanity today.

You couldn't make it up. Trump has made a Creationist head of his higher education reform task force. Jerry Falwell Jr.

The way the EU is reported in the British press has never given an honest picture. The British government have always been able to send back EU nationals after 3 months who are not self supporting. Theresa May chose not to do that. They could also have put a stay on workers from the accession states for a transitional period of 7 years. The gov. didn't do that. Of course, the number may not have been very large. Don't forget overall the tax paid by EU nationals would include oodles from lots of high flyers. The City, big pharma etc. They could also have put a stay on workers from the accession states for a transitional period of 7 years. Again didn't do that or require people to register after 3 months. This would now enable eligible EU nationals applying for citizenship to prove they are resident for the 5 years.

"Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence."

www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html

Sorry for repeat. Must proof read. Take out first 7 years mention.

Abstaining when you are shadow cabinet with a three line whip on matter of such national importance?

Ill? Sorry I just don't buy it. You need to be pretty bloody I'll to excuse yourself from last night. The most symbolic in a generation. Perhaps two. Or three. Her constituency is overwhelmingly remain. Its just too easy to pull a sickie.

I agree the 'Illness' is bollocks. It's just a cop out.

In all fairness, D.A. could have been ill. It does look pretty suspect, though. With something of this significance, I'd imagine you'd drag yourself along to vote and then return to your bed or wherever.

She apparently left HoC at 5pm so was there just before the vote.

Unless you were on your death bed you could hang on for 2 hours for such an important vote.