Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Ok Bear.

Well that's just a big old straw man, isn't it?

I said campaigners not voters. I don't see anything inclusive about UKIP or the Tory party conference speech by May. They are your Brexit leaders whether you like it or not.

And I would also point out that Nigel farage - - and his big pal trump - view women as things, not people.
Ok, I concede that farage hasn't been caught on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women....so I suppose that's makes him a feminist....

I am a student of history

We ignore history at our peril

If we ignore it we are condemned to repeat it

Don't you think that the views of you and your friends on the brexit arms thread are exactly those of the people of Germany in the 1930s?

Do you think your views are new or exciting?

So much easier to blame a section of society who look or sound different or practise a different religion than to blame successive governments and their deliberate attempts to defund state organisations and create dissatisfaction and division

Taking control of the media is next

Then labelling everyone who disagrees with you as "traitors" or "unpatriotic"

Sound familiar?

It should - because it's happening NOW in the US

And it could happen here

So....yeah....I despise farage and everything he (and you) stand for

Hope that clears it up for you

I'm having a lovely large negroni. I'm not usually a hard liquor on a Wednesday kinda gal but I had the urge tonight!

The EU has made laws which have protected every one of the groups I have metioned

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/14/eu-immigration-control-labour-supporters-voters-party

"I also wish my Labour colleagues would have more pride in our party’s reforming history and the good sense of the British people. It was Labour governments that introduced the vast majority of the rights that workers enjoy"

"From holiday pay to the minimum wage, Clement Attlee, Harold Wilson and Tony Blair didn’t need European bureaucrats to impose them on us. Again and again, Britain’s social rights have been world-beating. I’m absolutely confident that if any Tory government was foolish to attack our fundamental rights they would fail in their ambitions to gain support in the north of England and in the cities"

"With youth unemployment still close to 50% in many of our continent’s southern neighbours – notably in Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal – it is obvious that Europe isn’t working for workers any more. Millions of Labour’s voters have noticed and are voting to leave the EU as a result. They’ve heard politicians say that Brussels is about to change for the better if only we are all patient once more, and they know it never does change"

So much easier to blame a section of society who look or sound different or practise a different religion than to blame successive governments and their deliberate attempts to defund state organisations and create dissatisfaction and division

Not sure where you got that from - not me certainly.

So....yeah....I despise farage and everything he (and you) stand for

I voted to Leave the EU. If that singular action is enough for you to despise me & 'what I stand for' then so be it.

I'm not as shallow as that and certainly don't despise or otherwise anyone on these threads who just happens to have a different opinion or voting record to me.

Don't you think that the views of you and your friends on the brexit arms thread are exactly those of the people of Germany in the 1930s?

Not at all, despicable comment. My views are more in Line with Frank Fields above.

" I hope if Brexit does occur on 23 June a “freedom flame” will start to burn across the continent and social democratic parties, trade unionists and social justice campaigners will rise up against the existing EU model. It’s a model that suits Goldman Sachs and big businesses who want cheap labour. It suits agricultural industries rather than the families shopping for groceries. It’s not a social Europe. It’s not a workers’ Europe. It’s not a modern Europe. It’s time to leave"

oh wow an opinion piece. Labour aren't in government. Ask yourself what the Tories ever did for ordinary people and marginalised groups.

I liked it when semi said re trump 'do you think we're all so vacuous at the brexit arms that we're not appalled by the latest developments ffs'

And then you look at the brexit arms and are they appalled? Nope, not a bit, and then there's semi going on how hysterical people are.

It was bigly funny semi, you must admit that.

I get really tired of this argument. I can't speak for Spain, Portugal or Greece but unemployment - among the young especially - and also underemployment generally has always been extremely high in Italy. It has a lot to do with structural and institutional inequalities there, especially in rural and/or southern areas. The EU is not to blame for a problem that is decades old and is mostly to do with the way Italy runs its own affairs.

It was bigly funny semi, you must admit that.

Hmmmm.

So Frank Field (a sitting MP) is 'an opinion piece'; yet Nigel Farage (not an MP) is effecting change all over parliament with his ramblings....

Makes. No. Sense.

Yep, our Brexit friends talk of social justice and yet show apathy towards Trump.

Anyway, I'm sure the EU & UK will try to negotiate a deal that helps both - it's in everyone's interests.
However, the E27 aren't being "forced" to accept FOM for EU citizens: it's popular,e soecially with countries like Poland & Rumania
(MENA immigrant / refugees are a very different issue, but they aren't EU citizens, so don't have FOM)

If the UK wants cake, but not FOM, it is highly likely some of the E27 countries will veto it.
That pesky democracy.
Contrary to what Farage & the Fail keep telling you, EU public opinion isn't keen on yet more concessions to the UK, after so many years of optouts and special terms

The real problem is how to create a highly complex special deal within 18 months, to give time for approved by all countries, when trade deals around the world typically take 5-10 years
And the UK has hardly any negotiators for this, or all the deals it needs around the world

And while the EU leaders are preoccupied with their own GEs and crises like Trump, Putin, refugees, climate change etc

We are "traitors"
Remember that!
There is no doubt that the world is returning to a less peaceful and free place
President bannon has declared his desire for a holy war
I think - despite my hopes - trump will do everything he promised to the baying mobs on the campaign trial
And that terrifies me

more incoherent postings and dodging of questions from the usual suspects.

I know many remainers on here have personal vested interests in the Eu which is why some are so upset, but does anyone here work at Goldmans?

i know they threw money at Remain and as FF says - of course the EU winners are big business etc, and those on the Brussels Gravey train

is mostly to do with the way Italy runs its own affairs.

Shurely shome mishtake lala - we've been assured that the monstrous bloated EU has ensnared us all in its constricting tentacles and we have been literally helpless to do anything at all to run our own affairs. How is is possible for an EU member state to run its own affairs????

semi thats OK, Frank Field has been called out by some remainers as a racist who knows nothing. .

Its what you do with opinions you do not like over here, you bury them and dismiss them totally out of hand.

well it will be interesting to see who gets out the Euro first, Greece or Italy?

"So Frank Field (a sitting MP) is 'an opinion piece'; yet Nigel Farage (not an MP) is effecting change all over parliament with his ramblings...."

Sadly, Farridge gets an awful lot more air time than Frank Field.

Hard to believe, I know, Elements, but Italy has long managed to screw up its economy by itself (just like the UK managed to in 2008 ).

elements

It is "champagne" after the French region "Champagne", not "champaign". We will be too busy paying for things like medical insurance for champagne, and there will be a tariff on it like everything else. And the French might also just take their business elsewhere.