Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.
What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

I do think the NATO thing is impressive

But i don't trust Trump as far as i can spit him

He tells lies...oops no sorry 'alternative facts'

I can get a promise from ds2 that he will do his bedroom before i get home for lunch...doesnt mean he will do it

I think he might be an 'alternative fact' child

[RedToothBrush]

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Tory MP @AlbertoCostaMP says its "disgraceful" that the rights of EU nationals such as his parents have not been honoured in this debate

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt
Soubry: "History will not be kind to this parliament, nor to the government I served in."
"I fear generations yet to come will not thank us for our great folly."
She aims worst anger for those on the Lab benches who kept quiet, put down their heads & supported attacks on free movement & single market.
Labour went back on everything it ever believed in, she says. "They turned their backs on long standing belief in free movement of people"
"They have been petrified, literally frozen on the spot."^

Uh? What?

No fault of the Tories? Why are you a Tory again?

[MitzyLeFrouf]

Trump's word is not the breath he uses to expel it. The man will do whatever suits him in the moment.

[MitzyLeFrouf]

not worth the breath.

[RedToothBrush]

Kate Hoey going on about how badly we betrayed the Commonwealth in 1973.

So just how is it better to betray our EU friends now then? That was years before I was born.

Not following this logic.

[SemiPermanent]

Clegg: quotes "senior German decision makers" as "keen to explore" emergency break in return for "undisruptive" Brexit - Govt spurned

And yet Angela Merkel & others refused out of hand to even consider an 'emergency brake' as part of David Cameron's pre ref negotiations.

Perhaps if they'd offered/considered that before the ref, the outcome would have been different.

As usual, too little, far too late.

[whatwouldrondo]

Debbie How would you approach a meeting with Trump? Would you really think, based on his campaign and the last few days, that you could regard him as a trustworthy President who will play by the usual rules and will even be likely to be in a position to develop and follow through with a "special relationship" long term? If the diplomats and intelligence experts are doing their job they will have highlighted, as the outgoing CIA chief, and any number of eminent Psychiatrist already have, that he has deep psychological issues that make him vulnerable to being exploited by people who flatter him, extremely sensitive to criticism and with a tendency to grandiosity. I am sure May thinks she can be the one to exploit that by her flattery and offer of his desired state visit (which he craves as a form of validation in the memory of his dead mother who preferred real pageant to him). However I am sure she has been advised it is a risky strategy because it will never be a two way street with him, it will always what is best for him, his ego first, the USA by extension second. He won't hesitate to go back on his promise of NATO , there will always be the alternative facts to present as good reasons. Further his style of Presidency is on a collision course with the checks and balances of the US Constitution and nobody can bet with any surety that he will win out. So we are left having toadied up to him, diminished in the eyes of the rest of the world.

As to Turkey headed back to the dark ages, it was always a country divided between liberal secularists in the cities and the Conservative hinterlands. Britain and the EU and the carrot of EU membership have been a strong influence that empowered the former. The referendum campaign vilifying of Turkey joining the EU was in direct contrast to existing government policy to try and incentivise secular democracy in Turkey. The one good thing May did during her visit was to go and pay homage to Attaturk, the founder of Turkey's secular government that Erdogan is now undermining by exploiting Conservative forces. Erdogan now prefers to use other forms of leverage to gain the space to gain power, and Brexit and Russian involvement in Syria and the migrant crisis are all giving him that. It isn't just the validation that Theresa's visit gave him, and the turning a blind eye to the HR problems, it was another worldwide admission that we are desperate.

[LadyOhDearOhDear]

Anna Soubry was right - read All Out War by Tim Shipman and you will see that Corbyn and co undermined the Remain campaign. Of course it's the fault of the Tories aswell, but Corbyn and co really have contributed to this situation.

I thought her speech was pretty balanced and clear and she will remain a fan of Europe - I hope she keeps speaking out. She's one of the few. I think that's the point she was making.

Be fair Red.

[user1484653592]

"And yet Angela Merkel & others refused out of hand to even consider an 'emergency brake' as part of David Cameron's pre ref negotiations.

Perhaps if they'd offered/considered that before the ref, the outcome would have been different.

As usual, too little, far too late."

Not sure whether to cry or laugh at this. The UK had loads of special deals with the EU. "Too little too late?". Fine. People in the UK will pay for this attitude. The EU couldn't care less. Sadly.

[RedToothBrush]

Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor
BREAKING: The House of Commons WILL debate the petition calling for the Trump state visit to be banned on Monday, February 20th.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38814338?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
UK pardons thousands of gay men

Hmm. Watch what Trump does. Rumours are that an executive order cracking down on LGBT rights is on the cards. This timing could actually be deliberate and makes a point...

[Ontopofthesunset]

Yes, those kind of statements about poor little abused UK with the EU not trying hard enough to be reasonable are just like Toddler Trump's petulant hurt tweets. "I'm better and special and nobody says it enough."

[RedToothBrush]

I think Redwood might spontaneously combust. He was a bit too excited.

[LadyOhDearOhDear]

HaHa! Yes, Redwood was certainly passionate (not words I would have thought of putting in the same sentence before)!

[RedToothBrush]

www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-drug-pharmaceutical-manufacturing-234423
Trump promises to speed up drug approvals

President Donald Trump pledged Tuesday to expedite drug approvals and force foreign nations to pay their fair share for drugs manufactured in the U.S.

“We’re gonna be changing a lot of the rules. We’re going to be ending global free loading,” Trump said during a White House meeting with pharmaceutical industry executives. “Foreign price controls reduce the resources of American drug companies to finance drug and R&D innovation.”

Not good for the NHS. Not good for Third World Health. Will kill millions.

But that's ok. Americans First.

www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/michael-gove-says-the-future-of-politics-will-balance-trumps
Gove Interview. Says Trump is not racist.

[whatwouldrondo]

SP The government had access to an emergency break when the Eastern Europeans acceded to the EU. So it is not the EU who were guilty of too little, too late. Given the Osbourne / Cameron economic strategy I wonder how hard Cameron even negotiated. Perhaps he didn't want to imperil the economy by depriving it of one of it's success factors. Perhaps he wanted immigration both as a scapegoat AND an economic asset........... He didn't call the referendum out of a conviction that the country was opposed to the EU as a result of immigration, or any other reasons. Quite the contrary, he called the referendum because he was sure the country would vote for economic stability over immigration / sovereignty and that the power of the pesky right wing in the Conservative Party would be diminished.... He forgot about getting the Sun and Mail on side. Now who was the newspaper editor who was the first person May lunched with after throwing in her bid for PM?

[RedToothBrush]

Twitter
United Kingdom Trends

Nick Clegg
2,122 Tweets

John Redwood

Keir Starmer
1,669 Tweets

David Davis
1,903 Tweets

Anna Soubry
1,241 Tweets

Not sure what that means or whether its good or bad but interesting to note who is being talked about.

[LadyOhDearOhDear]

lots of red faced men in the chamber this afternoon! Or is it my TV?

[RedToothBrush]

Pierre Briançon ‏@pierrebri
Drip, drip... Fillon's wife had neither a pass to Parliament nor an email account in her years as his "attachée"

Macron, now favorite for the French Presidency, though I believe Le Pen is fav for the 1st round.

Geez its only 3.30pm. This is going on until midnight.

[RedToothBrush]

lots of red faced men in the chamber this afternoon! Or is it my TV?

No just the shouty DUP for you.

[RedToothBrush]

Dominic Grieve: The cost of Brexit is not just economic but also to our values.

[MitzyLeFrouf]

I think Redwood might spontaneously combust. He was a bit too excited.

He should try and sing the Welsh national anthem . That will calm him down.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Of course, we expect the UK and the rEU to keep trading with the US & Turkey, as they do with Saudi Arabia, Russia etc

The big difference is that Brexit has caused May to appease and grovel before fascist leaders, regardless of how disgusting their actions, whereas Merkel, Hollande et al are able to criticise publicly.

The US in its turmoil needs honest friends, not a poodle
Once Trump is gone, the rest of the US will remember who its true friends were.

I would be very impressed if I actually believed May had convinced Trump of the value of NATO.
Unfortunately, it was all meaningless platitudes, like any other abusive narc promising he'll never do it again.
He could decide next week to crash NATO, if Bannon whispers in his ear, or he has a tweetnami
Or at any future time when a member country dares to defy Trump's orders - he doesn't have allies, only subjects.

[whatwouldrondo]

Bannon looks like he has been on a five day bender He has had three divorces, the second wife bought charges of domestic violence linked to controlling behaviour, but she did not show up in court because she claimed she was threatened by Bannon and his Lawyer to get out of town because if he was in prison he would not be able to earn the money to keep her and their children.... www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/26/steve-bannon-domestic-violence-trump-campaign-ceo

[LadyOhDearOhDear]

Re: NATO. I think he will hold the NATO countries' feet to the fire re: payment of 2% GDP for NATO. If they don't cough up (and only 5 currently do) that will be his justification for crashing it. He's fed up of bankrolling NATO

[PausingFlatly]

And today, Policy Exchange has launched the report Jo Cox MP was working on when she was murdered: "The Cost of Doing Nothing: The Price of Inaction in the Face of Mass Atrocities"

"There are few more complex questions than when to intervene overseas. Jo Cox was an inspirational humanitarian who cared deeply about preventing violence and protecting people around the world. It is a fitting part of Jo’s legacy that this paper will challenge politicians of all parties to consider how we can put such considerations at the heart of the decisions we take." (Rt Hon Theresa May MP, Prime Minister)