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Brexit

Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

998 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2017 11:25

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 01/02/2017 18:28

Figment - yes. I have been trying to get my MP to tell me what arguments have persuaded her to now support Brexit. As it is, they are copping out, big time.

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:30

"Will of the people" is to 2017 what "Weapons of mass destruction" was to 2003.

Bearbehind · 01/02/2017 18:31

Completely agree figment

I've thought that about 'the will of the people' mantra for a long time.

Trouble is, based on comments like boreds the people who's will it is don't care what happens as long as we can rip up our EU flag.

I wonder if that will change when they start to be adversely affected personally by it - I suspect it will.

CeciledeVolanges · 01/02/2017 18:35

Which fixed position?

Headfullofdreams · 01/02/2017 18:43

Bring on the fuck up

2016 - the rise of the fuckwits

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 18:43

"Will of the people" is to 2017 what "Weapons of mass destruction" was to 2003

Well - if a rigorously overseen referendum, voted for by parliament, and executed in line with legal processes, at which over 17 million validated Leave votes were cast is in any way comparable to a blatant lie, then yes I suppose there are similarities... Confused

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:44

"Rigorously overseen"???

HashiAsLarry · 01/02/2017 18:46

I think rigorously overseen may be the biggest laugh I've had for a while Grin

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 18:46

Well, yes - unless you are privy to some as yet unseen intel that suggests there was foul play re casting/counting of votes etc, then it was rigorously overseen as with all democratic voting in Britain.

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:47

But yes, built on blatant lies, and used as a mantra to lead us into a catastrophically destructive course of action.

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 18:47

Perhaps you have info re Russian involvement or similar?

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 18:48

You say destructive, I say constructive...

Potato/tomato as they say.

Peregrina · 01/02/2017 18:49

It's the rigorously overseen bit which is a joke. Parliament was completely derelict in its duty in that respect. There should have been provision for what happened if Leave won. There should have been provision for it being a dead heat, or as good as. The whole process was a shambles from start to finish, and it won't go down as the finest hour in Parliament's history.

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:49

Unfortunately you've already as good as admitted that there is little basis for your optimism with your "unanswerable questions" post earlier,

HashiAsLarry · 01/02/2017 18:50

It was advisory.

It is now apparently mandatory.

Twas the biggest of the Brexit lies.

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:51

That is a big one, although it's got some stiff competition.

ImtheSantaAnaWinds · 01/02/2017 18:55

I cannot believe that MPs are standing up, saying they believe Brexit will be disastrous / catastrophic for the UK and are still voting for it tonight.

Badders123 · 01/02/2017 18:57

It reminds me of In the thick of it....the rise of the nutters.
It was funny back in 2006......

Kaija · 01/02/2017 18:58

Not to mention the hugely problematic use of the phrase "will of the people" to describe 37% of the electorate, suggesting everyone else forfeited their rights to representation after the vote.

ManonLescaut · 01/02/2017 18:59

I disagree, this vote is the beginning of a better future - unshackled from the EU behemoth

In 10 years you will see the Brexit politico-economic caper for what it is: a specious, laughably naïve, unintelligent ideology based on ignorance, lies, illusion, arrogance and nostalgia.

So a unsophisticated philosophically that it doesn't merit the term 'political religion', but that's rather what it is. Faith over fact. Myth over reality. Your imagination has been tricked.

Economically, the loss of the single market & CU, the depreciation of Sterling - we are looking at least a decade of economic downturn, increased inequality and trade quagmire while we extricate ourselves from the EU & negotiate new deals. At the end of which the 'better future', the Großdeutsches Reich you were promised will not materialise and you will realise you were had.

Peregrina · 01/02/2017 19:03

and you will realise you were had.

And the architects of it - Cameron, Gove, Johnson, May and Farage will all be long gone.

boredofbrexit · 01/02/2017 19:05

hmm....i suppose then I'll have to change my username....Wink

MitzyLeFrouf · 01/02/2017 19:05

'rigorously overseen referendum'

Oh you are a card!

woman12345 · 01/02/2017 19:06

Red's good read, recommended in Guardian.
Old leather trouser lady may will be having her smirky way today, but if it's the tory party I know, she better watch her back, there's a particularly rancid Anglo Bannon on his way.
Fascism can be fun everyone.
Enjoy the reading the manual:
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/01/totalitarianism-in-age-donald-trump-lessons-from-hannah-arendt-protests

Itsautumn · 01/02/2017 19:06

Delurking. I have followed these threads from the beginning and thank you for your informed and intelligent posts.
I have written to my Tory Remainer MP since the referendum result and received another letter from him today. He states that the battle to stay in the EU has been lost. He will vote for the article 50 bill but will carefully consider any amendments. He wants to get the best deal for London blah blah blah.
This depresses me no end and I almost feel total despair. Who represents the 48%? The mandate that they are making this life changing and monumental decision on is so flimsy.
My question is how do we hold our government to account when our MPs don't represent the wishes of their constituents? I know so many remainers who seem to have fallen into an apathetic coma and the 48% need to be inspired to mobilise somehow. I agree that the battle to stay in has been lost but did people really vote for the hardest of Brexits we are now facing? I don't think they did.