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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2017 13:49

Well its finally here. The day America changes forever. Good luck planet earth.

Our day of reckoning is beckoning too.

Tuesday is Supreme Court Judgement Day.

At 9.30 Lord Nueberger and the other ten justices will convene and he will read out their judgement.

Contrary to some suggestions this does not mean the decision is necessarily unanimous. It is normal for the Supreme Court to do this.

Nueberger will read any disagreements out as part of the judgment.
Their ruling will be far reaching in its importance however it goes.

A victory for the government will mean a50 can be triggered as and when Theresa May likes. That could be Tuesday afternoon in theory.

If it’s a victory for the claimants then things get much more complicated. It depends on how far the justices go.

It could rule that parliament need to vote on a50.

It could rule that the Great Repeal Act must be passed before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that the Scottish and NI Assemblies must agree to a50 being invoked.

It could rule that the Good Friday Agreement must be resolved before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that issues over acquired rights must be resolved before invoking a50.

It could draw other conclusions that we have not thought of.

A strong victory for the claimants could seriously hamper May’s plans for Brexit. Which is exactly why she has laid out her vision and has prepared the battle lines ready for her next round of blame laying.

None of this will be because the government has been short sighted.

If there is a strong victory, remember that May could have avoided the situation by accepting the High Court’s ruling in December that she needed Parliament’s consent to trigger a50. Anything more that makes triggering a50 more difficult is her sole responsibility and she had the power to avoid. Much of the right wing press will tell you differently.

We've heard so much about Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit. We should also talk of Democratic and Undemocratic Brexit. How Brexit is managed and how we conduct ourselves is arguably as important to the future as economics. It is right to oppose Undemocratic Brexit. It is important to make that distinction and all the principles that fall under that concept. What opposition there is need to get their shit together on this principle. Using patriotism to stifle this wholly wrong and unhealthy. Saying Brexit must happen no matter what, regardless of how bad it is and regardless of the cost is wrong.

Make the case for democracy. Keep talking about it. Talk about where it is failing and what we must do to strengthen it, not undermine it.

Here lies Labour's policy on Brexit. "We support Democratic Brexit which is the will of the people. This is how we define this. This is what is needed economic and socially." You can find the necessary slogans from this and start defining it outward from that. So far they have failed to capture this sentiment concisely into a soundbite that people can start to develop and push a left wing liberal agenda on their own terms from. Their PR is shocking and they are incoherent. May owned Corbyn at PMQ earlier this week on these grounds. This is not because they have been misrepresented by the press or been the victim of biased media. Its because they have been shit and have failed to set their own agenda and instead are dancing to everyone else's.

Here’s hoping that democracy will win through the challenges of the next few years. Democracy is about elections and referendums, but it is also so much more. It is about on going debate and the freedom of this debate, freedom of the press, a range of political parties and points of view, the independent judiciary, the right to oppose the state, freedom to exercise your legal rights, freedom of speech, an understanding of equality and an understanding and above all else - respect for of all of the above. It does not bode well that much of the right wing press and right wing politicians are telling us differently.

So much hope about our futures now rests with Angela Merkel one way or another.

Meanwhile Corbyn could face a major rebellion over a50 if he pursues a three line whip rather than a free vote. 60 - 80 Labour MPs are threatening not to tow the party line with shadow cabinet resignations potentially also on the cards.

Brace yourselves the roller coaster is just about to hit a one big drop.

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Thread gallery
14
MitzyLeFrouf · 26/01/2017 10:55

Happy to toady up to Trump and Erdogan but too lily-livered to address the Irish Dáil. Pah. And yes, wait for the Brexiters reaction when Turkey stand firm on the movement of people issue. Can't wait to see May try and brush that aside.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:06

A BILL TO
Require Her Majesty’s Government to notify the European Council by 31 March 2017 of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union.

BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

1 Notification of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union
(1) Her Majesty’s Government has a duty to notify the European Council by 31 March 2017 of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union.
(2) The notification must meet the terms of Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.

2 Short title, commencement and extent
(1) This Act may be cited as the Withdrawal from the European Union (Article 50) Act 2017.
(2) The Act shall come into force on the day on which it receives Royal Assent.
(3) This Act extends to England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

(Same as one proposed by Peter Bone last year I believe)

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:12

David Allen Green ‏*@DavidAllenGreen*

Whoops - now deleted tweet linked to a backbench attempt at an Article 50 bill, not the government version.

Sorry.

Grrrrr.

Not a50 Bill.

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Bobochic · 26/01/2017 11:13

I agree with Mistigri - living in a country but not speaking the local language is awful and unsustainable. It doesn't matter what you speak at work, you still have to talk to plumbers/electricians/dentists/your cleaner/your child's teachers and fill in your tax return.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:15

John McCain ‏*@SenJohnMcCain*
.@POTUS can sign whatever executive orders he likes, but the law is the law - we're not bringing back torture

This might be more important that it looks.

fleetstreetfox ‏*@fleetstreetfox*
Trump is signing executive orders that are unconstitutional. Article II of constitution demands he uphold it. Grounds for impeachment?

Applies to not just this subject, but possibly others. Requires spines to be grown though.

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:16

Richard Wheeler ‏*@richard*_kaputt
"Disgraceful!" shout some Labour MPs as Commons leader David Lidington says committee stage of article 50 trigger bill will take three days

Anna Soubry MP ‏*@Anna*_Soubry
As I predicted the A50 Bill will confer power on the PM to trigger A50 and that's pretty much it.

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Peregrina · 26/01/2017 11:26

He says: “My personal opinion is that we won’t put Gibraltar at the centre of negotiations. The situation is actually very clear and there is nothing for us to ask for: The UK leaves the EU and Gibraltar leaves the EU. If Gibraltar wants to make a life outside the EU, they are perfectly free to do so.”

No special deal for Gibraltar is potentially a problem.

96% of the Gibraltarians who voted, which I think was most, wanted to stay within the EU. If they had voted to Leave then it would have been going back to the time when the border between Spain and Gibraltar was closed.

I am curious as to what would happen in a Referendum vote - Gibraltarians have voted to stay British before, but now want to stay in the EU.

Tartankitten · 26/01/2017 11:32

I had to look up what Waterboarding is #livingashelteredlife

The short description:

Waterboarding is a form of water torture in which water is poured over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning.

Terrifying juxtaposition of news to wake up to Shock

what the hell is Theresa May thinking. FFS.

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day
RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:33

This isn't going down well.

From Guardian Live Feed:

MPs to get five days to debate article 50 bill, Lidington tells MPs
David Lidington, the leader of the Commons, has just told MPs that MPs will get five days to debate the article 50 bill.

He said the second reading debate would take place over two days, on Tuesday and Wednesday next week. That means that the key second reading vote will be on Wednesday.

Then, the following week, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday will be set aside for the committee and report stages and for the third reading. The bill will then go to the Lords.

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:40

The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill is scheduled to go through the HoC between Jan 31 and Feb 8. Two days of debate will be in the HoC on Tuesday and Wednesday with the key vote on Wednesday. The following week on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday will go to the committee and report stages and for the third reading. That makes five days in total and is significantly less than over the Maastricht. It is being viewed as an attempt to gag parliament by many.

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Tartankitten · 26/01/2017 11:40

And as a token of respect and friendship Theresa May will gift the Orange One with a quaich, a Scottish artefact traditionally gifted to clan leaders.

cultural appropriation Angry

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38756197

Tartankitten · 26/01/2017 11:42

Quaich is a traditional token of hospitality and a symbol of kinship.

At least we all know perfectly clearly where our unelected prime minister stands and what her morals and values are. Envy disgusted

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:53

Guardian Live Feed
Anna Soubry, a Conservative, asks if the Labour front bench will back the government’s programme motion for the bill.

Lidington says he cannot discuss what conversations have taken place between the usual channels (ie, the whips). But he says what Labour figures have made statements about the bill that have often been contradictory.

Not an expert but I THINK this means that Labour can challenge the timetable for the debate and this is what Anna Soubry is asking.

Liddington, says he can not discuss whether this has happened yet, nor what Labour said.

Liddington keeps saying that given the narrowness of the bill, 5 days is sufficient.

(Personally I think this could end up being difficult for the Lords as it stands, but lots of missing details at the moment so too early to say).

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Peregrina · 26/01/2017 11:55

I can only hope that May and her supine Tory MPs are so invested now in Brexit, and May is personally invested in Trumps success, that when the inevitable crash comes, or Trump is impeached, she will be too heavily implicated to worm her way out of it. As for the MPs - I won't be slow in reminding mine of the destruction that she has happily put her name too.

prettybird · 26/01/2017 11:56

A quaich is loving cup. Seems appropriate for the love-in from May to Trump not so sure it is reciprocated

You can rest assured that the gift is not from Scotland Wink

Melassa · 26/01/2017 11:56

Agree with Mistigri and Bobochic. Where I live it is fundamental to speak the local language, you really can't get by in English, unless you're a high flying banker or IT bod drafted in in a short term contract. For all other senior management roles fluent Italian is a must. Not only that, you're expected to speak fluent English PLUS another European language (usually French or German). To this end MFL are an important part of the school curriculum here and English is taught from 1st year primary (albeit not to a high standard).

On another note, interesting re the constitutionality of some of the executive orders coming out of the WH. We'd need to see if anyone has the Ball's to oppose anything. I wonder if Congress is running scared of opposition like our UK MPs.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 11:59

US trade deal is starting to potentially look like this:
UK exports the NHS
UK imports torture (after repealing the Human Rights Act).

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Melassa · 26/01/2017 12:03

I must say I am very disappointed by TM. How low can she stoop? I wonder if she will be wearing her leather trousers when she meets DT?

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 12:10

How low can she stoop?

I hope its not as low as what might happen in a Russian Hotel room but I'm starting to have my doubts.

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Piggeligg · 26/01/2017 12:16

Unfortunately the current British PM is either unprincipled or agrees with POTUS.
Given her history as Home Secretary and her publicly stated lack of respect for universal human rights I can only assume she also believes that torture is justified and acceptableSad

MitzyLeFrouf · 26/01/2017 12:22

I suspect you're right Piggeligg.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 12:23

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0132/cbill_2016-20170132_en_2.htm#l1g1

a50 BILL.
(The proper one)

A
BILL
TO

Confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.

Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
1 Power to notify withdrawal from the EU
(1) The Prime Minister may notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.
(2) This section has effect despite any provision made by or under the European Communities Act 1972 or any other enactment.

Short title
This Act may be cited as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017.

(Its a blank cheque. Difficult to add amendments to. But not impossible).

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Bobochic · 26/01/2017 12:23

Melassa - I agree about the three language (local plus English plus one another) thing. Everyone I know think their DC need to speak three or four languages and invest in their education accordingly. I'm sure the Leave camp was inflated because of the ridiculously unambiguous British attitude towards language learning. You can't think of Europeans as your brothers and sisters if you cannot understand their languages/cultures.

Melassa · 26/01/2017 12:25

*Today 12:10 RedToothBrush

How low can she stoop?

I hope its not as low as what might happen in a Russian Hotel room but I'm starting to have my doubts.*

In that instance I don't know who would be stooping lower, TM or DT. Grin

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 12:25

David Allen Green ‏*@DavidAllenGreen*
Article 50 Bill does *not" have a deadline of March 2017.

(Peter Bone's earlier version did.)

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