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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2017 13:49

Well its finally here. The day America changes forever. Good luck planet earth.

Our day of reckoning is beckoning too.

Tuesday is Supreme Court Judgement Day.

At 9.30 Lord Nueberger and the other ten justices will convene and he will read out their judgement.

Contrary to some suggestions this does not mean the decision is necessarily unanimous. It is normal for the Supreme Court to do this.

Nueberger will read any disagreements out as part of the judgment.
Their ruling will be far reaching in its importance however it goes.

A victory for the government will mean a50 can be triggered as and when Theresa May likes. That could be Tuesday afternoon in theory.

If it’s a victory for the claimants then things get much more complicated. It depends on how far the justices go.

It could rule that parliament need to vote on a50.

It could rule that the Great Repeal Act must be passed before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that the Scottish and NI Assemblies must agree to a50 being invoked.

It could rule that the Good Friday Agreement must be resolved before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that issues over acquired rights must be resolved before invoking a50.

It could draw other conclusions that we have not thought of.

A strong victory for the claimants could seriously hamper May’s plans for Brexit. Which is exactly why she has laid out her vision and has prepared the battle lines ready for her next round of blame laying.

None of this will be because the government has been short sighted.

If there is a strong victory, remember that May could have avoided the situation by accepting the High Court’s ruling in December that she needed Parliament’s consent to trigger a50. Anything more that makes triggering a50 more difficult is her sole responsibility and she had the power to avoid. Much of the right wing press will tell you differently.

We've heard so much about Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit. We should also talk of Democratic and Undemocratic Brexit. How Brexit is managed and how we conduct ourselves is arguably as important to the future as economics. It is right to oppose Undemocratic Brexit. It is important to make that distinction and all the principles that fall under that concept. What opposition there is need to get their shit together on this principle. Using patriotism to stifle this wholly wrong and unhealthy. Saying Brexit must happen no matter what, regardless of how bad it is and regardless of the cost is wrong.

Make the case for democracy. Keep talking about it. Talk about where it is failing and what we must do to strengthen it, not undermine it.

Here lies Labour's policy on Brexit. "We support Democratic Brexit which is the will of the people. This is how we define this. This is what is needed economic and socially." You can find the necessary slogans from this and start defining it outward from that. So far they have failed to capture this sentiment concisely into a soundbite that people can start to develop and push a left wing liberal agenda on their own terms from. Their PR is shocking and they are incoherent. May owned Corbyn at PMQ earlier this week on these grounds. This is not because they have been misrepresented by the press or been the victim of biased media. Its because they have been shit and have failed to set their own agenda and instead are dancing to everyone else's.

Here’s hoping that democracy will win through the challenges of the next few years. Democracy is about elections and referendums, but it is also so much more. It is about on going debate and the freedom of this debate, freedom of the press, a range of political parties and points of view, the independent judiciary, the right to oppose the state, freedom to exercise your legal rights, freedom of speech, an understanding of equality and an understanding and above all else - respect for of all of the above. It does not bode well that much of the right wing press and right wing politicians are telling us differently.

So much hope about our futures now rests with Angela Merkel one way or another.

Meanwhile Corbyn could face a major rebellion over a50 if he pursues a three line whip rather than a free vote. 60 - 80 Labour MPs are threatening not to tow the party line with shadow cabinet resignations potentially also on the cards.

Brace yourselves the roller coaster is just about to hit a one big drop.

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Thread gallery
14
Peregrina · 25/01/2017 07:57

Crowd Fund a campaign to bring a prosecution against the editors of the Mail and Express for inciting racial hatred/civil unrest?

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 08:03

Martial law for Chicago.
(@YourAnonNews)
5 hours ago - View on Twitter
Trump is planning martial law in Chicago. If federal troops set foot on state land it is a breach of the 10th Amen…

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 08:08

abcnews.go.com/US/trump-threatens-send-feds-chicago-carnage/story?id=45025761
Watch Rahm Emmanuel mayor of Chicago, who pledged sanctuary for immigrants.
abc7chicago.com/news/emanuel-chicago-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city-for-immigrants/1606252/
And our pm is 1st to visit.

TheElementsSong · 25/01/2017 08:35

And our pm is 1st to visit.

Standing shoulder to shoulder with everything he stands for Hmm, for our Brexit Britain front-of-the-queue titanically successful free trade deal.

Motheroffourdragons · 25/01/2017 08:38

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2017 09:12

"It was not immediately clear what prompted Trump's Tuesday night tweet, Hmm but (Chicago mayor) Emanuel criticized the president and his continued focus on the size of his inaugural crowd."

Agent Orange does not like criticism and when his ego is damaged he can now lash out and "send in the Feds"

New federal crimes:
. Correcting Trump's fake news
. Causing a Trump tantrum

Melassa · 25/01/2017 09:15

And the criminalisation of the press begins: www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest

Melassa · 25/01/2017 09:21

All these executive orders being signed, can the POTUS actually do that unchallenged? Can they not be overturned by Congress and/or the courts?

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2017 09:29

Yes some things can be challenged. This takes take and money though. Plus the Supreme Court in the US has elected judges. Trump has a rare opportunity to install a new one favourable to him because there is currently a vacancy.

This is why Wade v Roe (abortion law) is such a hot subject. The Republicans have their best chance to overturn it due to the make of the Supreme Court being politically in their favour.

This is why its better to have an independent judiciary, like we have in the UK.

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2017 09:32

US journalists should be very worried now:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest

"A documentary producer, a photojournalist, a live-streamer and a freelance reporter facing up to 10 years in prison and a $25,000 fine if convicted"

They were covering the riot after the inauguration
Call me cynical, but I think they would have been released without charge if they had Breitbart ID

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2017 09:36

The US Supreme Court splits along party lines, because judges are appointed for their political allegiance
So far, the UK Supreme Court does not have political appointees - though the Mail & Express bile against judges ober Brexit may be leading to such demands

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 09:38

Yes and no respectively, Melassa see Paul Krugman New York Times. "How Republics End".
I think that's why mothers were crying so much on Nov 10th.

Still we have a referendum on hanging to look forward to, if this toryukip crew go unchallenged. In their manifesto:
www.ukip.org/ukip_manifesto_summary:
"Give a national referendum on the issue of greatest importance to the British public every two years on the most popular petition with over two million signatures"
Nuttells:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-leadership-candidate-would-have-a-referendum-on-capital-punishment_uk_5815becfe4b0672ea688f17f

Motheroffourdragons · 25/01/2017 09:40

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 09:42

Still, most recent poll on death penalty in March 2015 was less than 50% in favour so I'm sure UKIP wouldn't win. Hmm

PattyPenguin · 25/01/2017 10:00

Mother I note that "Aircraft" is the fifth largest export category, with a figure of £2 billion, in that graph.

I wonder how long that will be true.

howabout · 25/01/2017 10:07

Mother great minds think alike Grin. I just posted that article in the Brexit Arms.

Patty Glasgow Prestwick Airport is part of a consortium with Houston planning to become the UK's first satellite launch station. Not sure if these exports to outer space will be whisky fuelled Smile

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38229169

howabout · 25/01/2017 10:16

On the US Supreme Court the Republicans would argue that it should be for the State legislatures rather than the Courts to rule on abortion law. This is the position in the UK where it is devolved in N Ireland and Scotland.

(Roe vs Wade becomes increasingly a pyhrric victory if wiki is accurate in stating that 87% of US county districts have no abortion clinics and federal funding through medicaid and employee insurance is restricted - somewhat puts the overseas Executive order into perspective when there is a similar ruling in the domestic US.)

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2017 10:19

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-donald-trump-talks-unwitting-tool-hardline-nationalists-destroying-european-union-a7542676.html
Brexit: Theresa May 'unwitting tool' of hardline nationalists determined to destroy EU, says Nick Clegg
Former Liberal Democrat leaderdecries 'axis of aggressive nationalism' stretching from White House to Kremlin ahead of PM's first meeting with Donald Trump

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BlueEyeshadow · 25/01/2017 10:20

I have sent what is becoming a daily email to our MP. Haven't had a single answer since June. This time I'm asking for proper detail and scrutiny in any bill - I'm really scared by this talk of rushing something through in a fortnight. He toes the party line pretty consistently on Twitter, despite being Remain before the ref, and otherwise seeming relatively sensible for a Tory, so not holding out much hope.

TuckersBadLuck · 25/01/2017 10:30

More Project Fear: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38740144

lalalonglegs · 25/01/2017 12:53

Chilling news about the journalists in Washington DC, BigChoc. I'm so tired of people in the UK saying, "X will never happen, Trump will never get the support, most Republicans are sensible people, blah." Well, it is bloody happening and it's very scary.

lalalonglegs · 25/01/2017 12:55

Better news on Brexit, the government will publish a white paper on their Brexit plans.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38737967

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 13:02

thanks la la
More than half a dozen Conservative MPs including some ex-ministers had called for a White Paper
Wonder who?

woman12345 · 25/01/2017 13:11

^However, leading Conservatives such as Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan, Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve as well as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems have applied pressure for a formal policy document setting out the government’s negotiating aims.
May made the white paper announcement at the beginning of prime minister’s questions in reply to Tory MP Chris Philp^
Nice taste in music, old Ken. Smile

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2017 13:17

Lets hope that the White Paper actually says something...

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*
One MP tells me he has gone back over all the Bill Cash Maastricht procedural amendments, and will now deploy same tactics on A50 Bill...

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