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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2017 13:49

Well its finally here. The day America changes forever. Good luck planet earth.

Our day of reckoning is beckoning too.

Tuesday is Supreme Court Judgement Day.

At 9.30 Lord Nueberger and the other ten justices will convene and he will read out their judgement.

Contrary to some suggestions this does not mean the decision is necessarily unanimous. It is normal for the Supreme Court to do this.

Nueberger will read any disagreements out as part of the judgment.
Their ruling will be far reaching in its importance however it goes.

A victory for the government will mean a50 can be triggered as and when Theresa May likes. That could be Tuesday afternoon in theory.

If it’s a victory for the claimants then things get much more complicated. It depends on how far the justices go.

It could rule that parliament need to vote on a50.

It could rule that the Great Repeal Act must be passed before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that the Scottish and NI Assemblies must agree to a50 being invoked.

It could rule that the Good Friday Agreement must be resolved before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that issues over acquired rights must be resolved before invoking a50.

It could draw other conclusions that we have not thought of.

A strong victory for the claimants could seriously hamper May’s plans for Brexit. Which is exactly why she has laid out her vision and has prepared the battle lines ready for her next round of blame laying.

None of this will be because the government has been short sighted.

If there is a strong victory, remember that May could have avoided the situation by accepting the High Court’s ruling in December that she needed Parliament’s consent to trigger a50. Anything more that makes triggering a50 more difficult is her sole responsibility and she had the power to avoid. Much of the right wing press will tell you differently.

We've heard so much about Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit. We should also talk of Democratic and Undemocratic Brexit. How Brexit is managed and how we conduct ourselves is arguably as important to the future as economics. It is right to oppose Undemocratic Brexit. It is important to make that distinction and all the principles that fall under that concept. What opposition there is need to get their shit together on this principle. Using patriotism to stifle this wholly wrong and unhealthy. Saying Brexit must happen no matter what, regardless of how bad it is and regardless of the cost is wrong.

Make the case for democracy. Keep talking about it. Talk about where it is failing and what we must do to strengthen it, not undermine it.

Here lies Labour's policy on Brexit. "We support Democratic Brexit which is the will of the people. This is how we define this. This is what is needed economic and socially." You can find the necessary slogans from this and start defining it outward from that. So far they have failed to capture this sentiment concisely into a soundbite that people can start to develop and push a left wing liberal agenda on their own terms from. Their PR is shocking and they are incoherent. May owned Corbyn at PMQ earlier this week on these grounds. This is not because they have been misrepresented by the press or been the victim of biased media. Its because they have been shit and have failed to set their own agenda and instead are dancing to everyone else's.

Here’s hoping that democracy will win through the challenges of the next few years. Democracy is about elections and referendums, but it is also so much more. It is about on going debate and the freedom of this debate, freedom of the press, a range of political parties and points of view, the independent judiciary, the right to oppose the state, freedom to exercise your legal rights, freedom of speech, an understanding of equality and an understanding and above all else - respect for of all of the above. It does not bode well that much of the right wing press and right wing politicians are telling us differently.

So much hope about our futures now rests with Angela Merkel one way or another.

Meanwhile Corbyn could face a major rebellion over a50 if he pursues a three line whip rather than a free vote. 60 - 80 Labour MPs are threatening not to tow the party line with shadow cabinet resignations potentially also on the cards.

Brace yourselves the roller coaster is just about to hit a one big drop.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
squoosh · 22/01/2017 01:52

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer says this was 'the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration . PERIOD.'

Day one in his new job and he's already sold his soul.

What fantastic fibs can we expect next week?

squoosh · 22/01/2017 02:00

Doh! I see Red has already mentioned the Press Secretary's bullshit, fuckwitted, wankbollox nonsense!

They're really going to take that 'facts don't matter. only emotions do' thing and run with aren't they?

iwanttoridemybicycle · 22/01/2017 06:56

That press secretary conference was insane. The guy looked like a rabbit trapped in headlights. Trump is obviously rattled. And no questions at the end. Unbelievable.

SaltyMyDear · 22/01/2017 07:03

Fuck. What's happening in the US is really starting to remind me of the handmaids tale.

Crazy, bible bashing, president taking control after Muslim terrorist incidents. :(

user1484653592 · 22/01/2017 07:10

"Looking at the men who were there though, I'm not sure I'd want to deny them the opportunity to support women on an important cause..." running a protest as a 'women's march' doesn't men men can't come but that maybe only a certain the of men will want to come, men as seen yesterday who don't rely on brutishness and aggression to get their points across but on inner strength, intelligence, humour and compassion.

"They're really going to take that 'facts don't matter. only emotions do' thing and run with aren't they?" There was a sign at the March yesterday that read "Women have dealt with screaming toddlers since time began" with a caricature of Trump underneath. Poignant.

Mistigri · 22/01/2017 07:30

maybe only a certain the of men will want to come, men as seen yesterday who don't rely on brutishness and aggression to get their points across but on inner strength, intelligence, humour and compassion

There was criticism of the decision to call it a "women's march" but the complete absence of violence yesterday vindicates that.

Oh, and the extraordinary turnout ;)

user1484653592 · 22/01/2017 07:30

*maybe only a certain type of men

HPFA · 22/01/2017 07:31

You can't read the article but Telegraph has feature by Christopher Booker calling May's Brexit plan "ignorant, hubristic and laughable" There does seem to be an emerging alliance between some Remianers and liberal Brexiteers.

HPFA · 22/01/2017 07:37

I admit I was laughing when I watched this. But really it is terrifying. Remember he is supposed to be talking about vitally important foreign policy

twitter.com/CNN/status/822905373493297152

Peregrina · 22/01/2017 07:53

For the Telegraph to start criticising is abeginning at least. May can't deny that the Tory manifesto promised to support the Single Market; a promise which was tested at a General Election. Although she's trying, she can't cop out by saying hard - Brexit is the will of the people because that question hasn't been on any ballot paper.

So after a million strong women around the world marched today
one weak woman will crawl to Trump

Brilliant slogan BigChoc.

user1484653592 · 22/01/2017 08:30

"twitter.com/CNN/status/822905373493297152"

OMG. It's getting harder and harder to disguise that DT is a complete fruit cake.

His ego was hurt by the fact that so few people came to his inauguration. Has he commented on the women's march?

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 08:52

Thanks for those details on Germany and Iceland, could it be that there civilised approach to equal rights might be in part thanks to the grans and mums who did those actions (not surprised they were not supported by the unions Grin)
How about a modest 'pick up your own towels' for starter?
For all the 2.5 million who took part yesterday?
One of the slogans yesterday was 'equality feels like oppression to the entitled' or something to that effect.

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 08:54

Thanks for those details on Germany and Iceland, Big Choc

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 09:13

If Janet Daley is noticing this, your slogan may become policy BigChoc!
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/21/president-trump-sounded-like-ranting-fascist-hope-finds-inner/

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 09:19

HPFA agree, and the editorial on relationship with US v nuanced. Wonder if they're more shocked by the marches than a sick man in a press conference?

Kaija · 22/01/2017 09:32

On Trump's press statement about the inauguration numbers:

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day
Kaija · 22/01/2017 09:50

More indications of things to come from the Trump administration: government agencies told to stop using Twitter until given "guidance" next week, after the National Park Service retweeted the photo showing turnout for Trump vs Obama inaugurations

www.teenvogue.com/story/trump-administration-reportedly-asks-national-park-service-stop-tweeting?mbid=social_twitter

Kaija · 22/01/2017 09:53

The thing that makes now - 2016/2017 - so disorienting is that it is all so unfamiliar compared with real life as we knew it, yet so completely familiar from dystopian fiction.

prettybird · 22/01/2017 10:01

Kaija - that's it in a nutshell. So frightening Sad

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 10:08

So, he's getting his agenda back today? It's classic abusive behaviour. Make it irrelevant.

Some of the young and all of the unwise are vulnerable to their lies, doesn't mean the rest of us should be.

Lico · 22/01/2017 10:13

It is do worrying-Let's hope that many underground resistance groups get created. If Internet is being spied by Trump we might perhaps revert back to leaflets dropping from planes like the during WW2!!!! This is surreal -1930's all over again

www.euronews.com/2017/01/21/donald-trump-protests-held-across-europe

prettybird · 22/01/2017 10:17

....an alternative and more positive use for drones? Wink

woman12345 · 22/01/2017 10:22

So this is a popular watch today!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0

In the 80s, I met and did actions for people who had in real life been tortured,and imprisoned for their beliefs, in Turkey, South Africa, Chile, Ireland etc. We simply got on with the campaign to support them. And won some of the battles.

I have appreciated the peace and democracy that has been very generally around for us, in the west over the last 30 odd years, that that direct knowledge of actual actions has been lost. Old war stories!

The dystopian fiction that has described potential futures is really useful and some of it well written(elitist), but it is not real life. We can choose that bit.

Real life is messier and has humans who do good and wise and unselfish things just because they do.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself, as another pres once said.

HesterThrale · 22/01/2017 10:35

They can freeze Twitter accounts and refuse to engage with the media, but they can't (yet) stop people taking to the streets.

PattyPenguin · 22/01/2017 10:56

There were some awfully good placards yesterday, one of which read "Make Margaret Atwood fiction again".