How many leavers would support ID cards ?

[lurkinghusband]

My spidey senses (especially with the NI discussion passim) are starting to pick up an "we would need ID cards post Brexit" whiff in the air.

(Since this is Brexit related, obviously no details are needed)

So if every person in the UK (snowflakes included) was required to carry an official ID card at all times and become a criminal if they don't (even if they forget) is that a price worth paying.

Every person - from birth ....

I think ID cards should be introduced and it should be impossible to access any publicly provided service (with the exception of genuine medical emergency) without proof of ID and entitlement.

This negates the need to carry them at all times (you don't legally have to carry your drivers licence to drive a car), but it means at the point of access to all publicly funded service you have to prove your are entitled to use them.

I'm a remain voter if that makes any difference to the weight of my opinion.

So, @LurkingHusband, from this thread it seems mostly Remainers in support of ID cards, and that ID cards are widely used elsewhere within the EU yet Britain railed against their introduction here.

Why did you address the thread to Leavers?
What were your assumptions?
That Leave voters were more in favour of ID cards?
Perhaps that their 'Little Englander' attitude meant they'd be rushing to sign up to something that 'kept the foreigners in check'?

Booboochic
Rorty - what you want is irrelevant because you aren't PM.

Oh no! I thought I was! Are you sure?

Well it's not all bad, thank goodness I have you to point out how stupid I am. It could have been so embarrassing if you hadn't told me and I turned up at No. 10 on Monday morning ready to run the country

PebbleInTheMoonlight
I'm a remain voter if that makes any difference to the weight of my opinion.

Honestly did you really type that? You think your opinion should be deemed to be more weighty because you're a remainer?? [sniggers]

@RortyCrankle no!

I wrote that because the OP clearly positioned their question to Leave voters and assumed my opinion would be seen as less important.

Actually laughing at how pathetic your assumption is!

Voted leave. Carry an ID card all the time as I live in Belgium, so would not have a problem with one in the UK.

Mother I got searched at the airport, had to go through the scanner and got patted down. Dh didn't, and when I asked why, got told it was the computer that selected who got stopped.

Rorty I have a Belgian PAYG, and now I have to provide ID to top it up, as anonymous PAYG is not allowed here now, due to security issues.

Why are ID cards or the requirement to present such to the police on demand a threat to civil liberties?
The far more pressing threat to civil liberties is loss of access to tell European courts due to this ridiculous brexit nonsense!

In the immediate post war years it was the requirement to present it to the Police on demand which was the threat to Civil Liberties, the argument being that it was turning law abiding citizens into criminals if they couldn't show the card.

Same question why should you not identify yourself to the police when required to do so?

Why should the Police be required to know who you are? I can see if you have committed a crime yes, but some innocent person walking down the street minding their own business?

Having said that, I think that having an ID card might just be easier than having to produce two items from a list.

engineersthumb
Same question why should you not identify yourself to the police when required to do so?

When my front door was banged on vigorously at 5.30am one morning by what turned out to be five police officers, believe me, it was easy for me to identify myself and for them to realise that they were at the wrong door, all without the need of an ID card.

But just think, if ID cards were compulsory and you weren't able to produce it immediately, would those five police officers have hauled you off for a day in the cells? It's possible.

I think it's not the ID card itself which is the problem, it's how laws could be abused. Think of pass laws in apartheid South Africa, for example.

Well Peregrina I think I was safe as they were looking for the 20ish year old son of one of my neighbours, whereas I'm a 70+ year old disabled woman

But the point is its useful for the police to be able to easily establish your id in order to find out if you are wanted for a crime. I also see no problem with holding someone until they came provide such evidence. The only people that should fear the are criminals.

So you say rorty so you say

It could have been a cunning disguise

I suspect the end game is have everyone micro chipped so all your ID banking medical stuff is to hand should anyone ask for it

The only people that should fear the are criminals
Or victims of error.I once had an operation delayed as they had mixed my records on the system with someone of the same name but everything else totally different. It was an input error by an employee.

I think I was safe as they were looking for the 20ish year old son of one of my neighbours, whereas I'm a 70+ year old disabled woman

This reminds me of the time the Police brought home a neighbour's son, absolutely plastered and out of it, and knocked on our door to see if we could identify him.

And it's all very well talking about holding someone until they can prove that they are not wanted for a crime - this is assuming people are guilty until they can prove they were innocent. It wasn't the way our laws used to work. Criminality is whatever a state defines it to be: having two wives is bigamy and a crime in this country, acceptable in others. Carrying guns is perfectly acceptable in some US states, in this country we need a licence.

Yes yes yes, all is good when we all behave ourselves.

Otherwise fuck then

m

But the point is its useful for the police to be able to easily establish your id in order to find out if you are wanted for a crime. I also see no problem with holding someone until they came provide such evidence. The only people that should fear the are criminals.

The inconvenience caused to innocent people is IMO outweighed if they have the effect of reducing crime.

OP - both statements above from Remain voters.
How does that fit with the stereotyping you applied to Leave voters?

They were just 2 statements taken from the whole thread, but I picked them as those which most closely fitted with the questions posed by you in your OP and subsequent post.

Has this thread done anything to change your (slightly bigoted) generalised pre-conceptions about 'what a Leave voter is'?

Has it helped you to understand that, regardless of how someone may have voted w.r.t. Brexit, no 'side' is a homogeneous mass with a hive mind?
Each 'side' has one fundamental difference only: whether they voted to leave or remain.
Everything else is applicable across the board to both 'sides' in varying degrees.

I voted remain & have no problems with ID cards or penalties for not carrying one. When I lived abroad I carried an ID when I was at school & it wasn't an issue.

With regard to the snowflakes comment insults are divisive & the point of the original argument gets forgotten. Name calling deflects from the point & makes it look as though people are insecure about counter arguments if indeed they have any.

Does carrying ID actually help to reduce crime? I suspect not.

What I find curious is who is allowed to identify bodies (next of kin) compared with who us allowed to verify the identity of a live person (e.g. for passport, non related professional person but not known through business dealings).