How many leavers would support ID cards ?

[lurkinghusband]

My spidey senses (especially with the NI discussion passim) are starting to pick up an "we would need ID cards post Brexit" whiff in the air.

(Since this is Brexit related, obviously no details are needed)

So if every person in the UK (snowflakes included) was required to carry an official ID card at all times and become a criminal if they don't (even if they forget) is that a price worth paying.

Every person - from birth ....

I'm a remainer and still hoping that this brexit nonsense will crawl off and die. However I would like to see compulsory biometric ID cards. I'd like to include the way we voted in the ref on the card then deport all the kippers and leavers to a small insignificant island with no economy, little hope and a coffin containing the remains of a liberal society... oh wait they could stay home!

Surely the future is with finger prints, voice recognition, retinal scanning etc, so that you'd presumably get bleeped or scanned in some kind of sci-if way by the police officer (or provider of publicly funded services) and then if you're not on the national citizen register, or whatever, it's fuckoff-ski....Job done.

Yes the problem with all this shit is that you have to store it securely. Think about it. So many problems with storing the right information about the right person and making sure it is not corrupted, hacking and other hostile attacks

Have you ever followed the record for government IT projects?

deport all kippers .
Don't worry, Fartage will clear off if the country goes down the pan.

Have you ever followed the record for government IT projects?

It is Not Good.... I used to be able to say that I was lucky that I had a relatively unusual name so tended not to get mixed up as friends both called names like Sue Smith did - especially if they went to the same health centre.

Then my DIL took our surname and there are two of us, with the same name - which causes mixes up on numerous occasions. (Although common sense should tell some receptionists that I am clearly no longer in my 30s, or DIL would be extremely well preserved for a woman in her 60s!)

Indeed Pere
And when your family are being woken up at 5am to be deported, data accuracy might have a heightened importance.

MercyMyJewels
You have a bank card Rorty perhaps? Loyalty cards? A computer that you are on now? All trackable

I'm done for - cutting up bank card as we speak, no loyalty cards - be right back - just going to get axe to kill the laptop.

SemiPermanent
Rorty, you've got a 'burner phone' - like a SPY!!!

Have I? No idea what a burner phone is but I'm so excited

What fun

I'm hoping for something really Sci-fi cool, like my card being linked to my fingerprints and dna. Maybe retinal scanner activated

My kids have French ID cards and passports, and they take your fingerprints at the town hall when you apply and then you use your fingerprint to confirm your ID when you pick them up.

This is an interesting discussing. I've lived abroad long enough not to find the idea of an ID card shocking, as long as normal civil liberties are respected and there is proper data protection. Not sure that I would be confident that the current UK government would respect either of those. (Note that one of the largest potential financial gains from leaving the EU comes from scrapping data protection regulations.)

I think compulsory ID cards would be an idea that would appeal to May. What might stop her? Well, the cost of course. They would have to be free or there would be a political outcry and the law would be widely flouted. And it would cost £££ to set up the necessary services, at a time when the civil service and local authorities are stretched as never before.

I think it is more likely that existing sorts of photo ID will become more and more necessary for accessing basic services, including education and voting - tough shit for poor people who don't drive and can't afford a passport eh?

ID cards represent a gross violation of civil liberties and would presumably be used to restrict access to public services. What a repulsive idea. As a civilised country, the UK should guarantee equal rights for all, regardless of immigration status. The NHS, in particular, must continue to offer free at point of use basic healthcare, no ID required. Leaving the EU will check population growth in the UK, thereby reducing pressure on public services like the NHS and negating the supposed need for ID cards.

lovelearning - Brexit will increase pressure on the NHS and social care, not decrease it. The immigrants that currently prop those services up will leave and there will be an influx of elderly British citizens who have been living out their retirement in Spain and France.

The immigrants that currently prop those services up will leave

Why?

Why will those immigrants leave? Because that is the whole thrust of TM's Brexit strategy: to reduce immigration by leaving the EU and the right of EU nationals to FOM and long-term futures in the U.K. What doctor/nurse/care worker in their right mind would stay working in the NHS or social care when there are no long term guarantees for their future in the U.K.?

Bobochic, as an employer of EU migrant workers, I can assure you that nobody's planning on leaving.

They've already started to leave and new ones aren't replacing them. Care homes in the South East have empty beds and people clamouring for them but there are no care workers.

And, when people are refused work permits, they will have to leave whatever their personal plans.

Lovelearning,
We are preparing to leave so don't think others won't too. Still where only an engineer, a doctor a two children so no loss to the UK!

Can we link the I'd card up to some sort of app?

I'd never be without it then

Also the burden/release of pressure on the NHS.

What are the numbers on both sides?

If lots of people leave then they won't be using the services, so wouldn't it be ok if there were less doctors/porters?

Just something I've been wondering.

The people likely to leave - able bodied working adults - are not intensive users of the NHS and social care. Returners will mostly be pensioners.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that by voting Leave, we want all EU nationals to be removed from the country which is not the case at all. What we want is to have control our borders in order to enable us to allow those who are working and paying taxes to continue to do so and to allow new entrants in if they have the skills we need. It's no more or less than what is done in countries like Australia or NZ or Canada.

What we don't want is open borders allowing in thousands of economic migrants descending on the country because they think we're an easy touch. Nor do we want the considerable number of Eastern Europeans currently languishing in our prisons and they and their families should be returned to their home countries on exit from prison.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

Bobochic I thought there was a fear of TM booting out all those who don't earn enough money.

So that would be quite a few (I'm included in that btw)

I am curious as to what would happen.

How many 'drains' on the system would be kicked out.

How many 'gains' would up and leave themselves.

How many 'drains' are there that would have to come back.

What would be the overall effect?

I have an ID card already and have done since i was 18 its a CitizenCard I thought everyone has them

Rorty - what you want is irrelevant because you aren't PM.

AnxiousArmy - I know that there has been scenario modelling for the net migration effects of different new regulation hypotheses and obviously these are very sensitive to minimum revenue thresholds.

Nevertheless, the greatest impact is going to be felt in the medium to long term, once the attractivity of the UK as a destination for educated and skilled migrants can be properly measured.