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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:09

John Harris in the Guardian nails it for me when he says:

The idea that what 23 June represented was a vote for a Britain “even more global and internationalist, in action and spirit” is clearly laughable.

When it was clearly Little Englander writ large and kick out all those nasty furriners.

It is no good banging on about a country open to overseas talent – and the glories of scientific and academic co-operation – when you are already moving towards cutting the numbers of EU students by over 30,000.

No, nor when you have already kicked out 50,000 overseas students unlawfully, and reduced visas to Indian students to a tenth of what they were. Not actions which will be forgotten in a hurry by the countries concerned. Not forgotten either when the possibility of studying in Australia or Canada beckons instead.

Bromides about Scotland and Wales do not smooth over the fact that single market membership represents a huge red line for Nicola Sturgeon, and that the Union is once again creaking. No mention of Ireland or Gibraltar (not part of the UK I know. ) Will Gibraltar end up back as a part of Spain?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/01/2017 20:09

Democracy didn't end in June. All I see is a divided country, hatred and fear. Oh and food and petrol got abit more expensive - a real victory for the "just about managing". Hmm

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 20:09

europe.newsweek.com/theresa-may-brexit-united-kingdom-london-europe-eurozone-european-union-543718?utm_campaign=socialflowT&utm_source=socialflowtwitter&utm_medium=articles

"The worst case now seems to be the base case," a senior executive at one major global bank said after May's speech, adding that contingency planning would continue apace.

May will meet the heads of several big players, including Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan CEOs Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon, at the World Economic Forum in Davos for private talks on Thursday.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/17/hard-brexit-will-hurt-uk-more-say-eu-diplomats-and-business-leaders?CMP=twt_gu
In Spain, however, Javier Garat, the president of Europêche, which represents 80,000 fisheries workers across the EU, said a mutually agreeable deal was the preferred option, but British workers stood to lose far more than their continental rivals if things turned ugly.

“When it comes to exports, 68% of all the UK’s fish products are exported to the EU, much of that to Spain,” he said. “If anyone’s going to lose out in the market it would be the UK, not Spain.”

and

Thomas Prouza, the Czech Europe minister, said on Twitter May’s wishlist looked “a bit ambitious”, adding: “Trade as free as possible, full control on immigration … where is the give for all the take?”

It doesn't matter what Remainers might think. It's not about getting Brexiteers to change their minds.

The people whose minds need changing at the minds of EU leaders. The speech has not exactly gone down well. It was a domestic speech which has had a negative effect on Europe.

I can't see how it makes it more likely we will get any deal. Indeed it just makes it more likely that May will end up with no deal. She says that no deal is better than a bad deal. Given what no deal entitles that's positively frightening.

The gap between Brexiteer ambition and what the EU will give is, and always was, what Remainers are concerned about.

Nothing has been done to be realistic and honest about this difference when it comes to the chances of a successful negotiation.

In the mean time, businesses are making those plans for the worst case scenario which looks increasingly likely not less likely.

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Mistigri · 17/01/2017 20:10

Democracy isn't about shutting up after a vote. In fact, it's the opposite. Healthy democracies have an active opposition. The UK could do with more opposition and more protest, not less. The problem is that the demographic most opposed to brexit - educated, economically-active people - have little time to protest (because they are busy generating wealth) and no real culture of active protest. I sometimes wish you would take a leaf out of the French left's book and start dumping cauliflowers or manure in front of parliament.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 17/01/2017 20:11

I saw a deeply divided country before June 24th and a lot of white hot anger.

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2017 20:13

" Sorry to say but nothing will change until DM-reader pensioners feel the economic disadvantage of Brexit. May only cares about the next election and she evidently only spoke to them."

Catching up here but I'm not even sure about the above. My in-laws are wealthy pensioners (own 2 homes mortgage-free, long haul holiday each year, 2 cars etc) and yet they think they're not. My mil will make "Ooo, isn't it awful" comments about any bad news NHS story but simply does not connect that that is anything to do with how she votes. I honestly think that, for them, being from working class backgrounds and voting Conservative means you've left that behind and improved yourself, regardless of the effect of that vote. I suspect she's not that unusual.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 17/01/2017 20:14

Red it was a tough speech its called negation its what you do in a negotiation. There has been much hostility directed at the UK since Brexit, Mays speech was the right speech to give back. She was not speaking to make friends.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 20:15

fleetstreetfox ‏*@fleetstreetfox*
Obama: 8yrs, no sex scandals, one apparently happy marriage. Trump: already got watersports and a lawsuit.
Clever lawsuit - not for sexual assault, which they'd have to prove, but defamation that he called her a liar, which HE has to prove.
And she doesn't want any cash. VERY clever. He either admits she's telling the truth and he's a dirty old git, or he loses a $$ lawsuit.

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user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 20:15

"Picking apart a poster's spelling & grammar because she disagrees with you?!" semi as opposed to some I don't judge whether someone's native english or not. However I'd be interested in the story of a non-native brit (if super mummy is one which i thought she might due to grammar and spelling) and what their own reasons might be for applauding May's policies.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:18

Red it was a tough speech its called negation its what you do in a negotiation.

I think you have made a Freudian slip there with your 'negation'. It wasn't a negotiators speech - it was a headmistressy harangue. That might work with a bunch of 11 year olds and it's obviously working with her MPs, but her European counterparts have got more about them than a bunch of 11 year olds, as she will no doubt find out.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:18

8You do know that Brexit hasn't actually happened yet though?
Ummm, yes, I was referring to project fear predictions that Armageddon would start the day after the vote to leave.

TuckersBadLuck I am not sure what secret point you are trying to make about free movement but most people I know see the people moving here from Europe with their own eyes. I guess we are all imagining the massive increasing number of immigrants.

The EU won't pay us anything Umm so the EU companies bringing goods into the UK wont have to pay tariffs if we have to?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/01/2017 20:21

There has been much hostility directed at the UK

I expect Brexiters and the British government to play the victim card over the coming months and years. Despite the UK always being the awkward partner in the EU, triggering Brexit oh and sending a British Politician to Brussels to give his unifying "well you're not laughing now speech". Hmm

I want nothing to do with this Little Englander bollocks. I consider europe my friends and neighbours.

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 20:21

Supermummy You do know that saying something often enough does not make it true? There is plenty of evidence that companies are firming up plans to move out of the UK. Why wouldn't they if as a result of trading in the U.K. they lose a competitive advantage in global markets? I have asked this again and again because as a direct result of my work experience I know that trading globally is not as similar let as doing trade deals You have to have something to sell that the rest of the world wants to buy at a price you can profitably sell it .It really feels as if the UK has become one of those reality TV shows where someone comes in to point out to some deluded fool that the reason their business is failing is because they failed to understand this simple bit of common sense, except nobody is listening to that someone because experts ? Pfuff...

By the way as someone who, as you may have noticed is dyslexic, I do agree that you should not judge people by their spelling and grammar, the arguments are of course another matter.....

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 20:22

supermummy Tariffs are an issue, but not the biggest one. Non tariff barriers and regulatory issues a much bigger headache for industry.

But I don't think you know anything about the realities of trade, and I have had enough of trying to discuss complex issues with people who do not have the educational or employment background to make the exchange fruitful.

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2017 20:23

"Ummm, yes, I was referring to project fear predictions that Armageddon would start the day after the vote to leave."

Ummm, and you do realise predictions were based on Cameron's threat to trigger Art 50 on June 24th.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:24

it just makes it more likely that May will end up with no deal

If the EU want to cut off their nose to spite their face then we are better off out of the crumbling club. Not sure they are so stupid though and if we have to go back on WTO rules then I am fine with that, its a win win for the UK.

I think the EU are just pissed off we are standing up for ourselves instead of doing what we are told and accepting whatever crumbs they threw our way.

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 20:25

Oh but of course Gove et al wouldn't agree. Give was responsible for setting back the perceptions of Dyslexia, and the opportunities for those affected to emerge from the school system to achieve their potential (as in for eg the chance to be one of the non neurotypical candidates the MOD actively recruit) by decades

bobsleighteam · 17/01/2017 20:26

Listening to the news and had a (quite possibly crazy) thought. When cameron resigned we were all reliably informed that the job of PM was a poisoned chalice. So how could May a remainer hope to make it work?
What if she's found a way. Become PM offer MP'S a vote on a ludicrously hard brexit. If they accept and we leave she's carried out the will of the British people any repocussions are not her fault after all she's a remainer doing her best in a difficult situation and no body can accuse her of not following through.
If they vote against then a way to stay that equally isn't her fault, the blame will lie at the door of rebel mps and the opposition.

Inkanta · 17/01/2017 20:27

'I think the EU are just pissed off we are standing up for ourselves instead of doing what we are told and accepting whatever crumbs they threw our way.'

Exactly! Theresa May's tone is the right tone to take.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:28

I was referring to project fear predictions that Armageddon would start the day after the vote to leave. Recollect also that Cameron was going to invoke A50 immediately in the event of a Leave vote. He was also going to stay on as PM and then an MP. He's done non of those things. The predictions were based on that happening.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:28

user1484653592
Sorry user I am not bring up my ethnicity or race in this debate where I would at great risk of being trolled.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 20:28

And big news that first wife has decided to testify. This if for real.

Although in a world in which a short man suggests that women who get paid in actual cash for sex have low status on global TV; when an illiterate orange man in a toupee calls women 'it' ; an English man equates domestic work with sexual proclivities, it's difficult to know where public mores would stand on serial and violent rape.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 20:28

May is saying that the country is united and saying we should get behind it. That's about making friends isn't it? Except its not is it?

She's still stoking up division at home. How does going on about children and grandchildren help negotiations? How does it close divisions and make people support her? How does it reassure people? How does it make young people feel like its a good thing for them? How does it respect those younger people? Indeed its patronising in tone.

It doesn't help negotiations in that sense. It does the opposite. Most of it was nothing to do with negotiations at all.

The audience was domestic. It didn't go down well domestically with a significant portion of the audience.

That's not a success. Its not convincing a lot of business leaders who make decisions about jobs and investment.

The EU might be who you need to negotiate with, but in the meantime other people have to make contingency plans. There was nothing in what May said that offered anything of substance. She can't offer that as its not in her hands to decide. Instead she offered the possibility of a nice little trade war. Which is in her hands to decide.

Business like stability and certainty. Not trade wars and the uncertainty of negotiations.

And quite obviously she's done nothing about managing expectation.

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woman12345 · 17/01/2017 20:30

cross thread, very cross thread.Grin

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 20:31

I expect Brexiters and the British government to play the victim card over the coming months and years.

Yep. That.

Nasty Europe. Poor little England.

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