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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

OP posts:
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Medicaltextbook · 17/01/2017 18:15

Can't face RTFT. Sad, worried, a bit depressed in the proper medical sense) Sad

AllTheLight · 17/01/2017 18:17

Place marking

pointythings · 17/01/2017 18:31

After today I am looking at options for life outside the UK. And I never thought I'd say that. This country is not the one I thought I was coming to.

Kaija · 17/01/2017 18:31

Does anyone have a clear idea about what was so different in May's speech to Hammond's summary of it at the weekend as to cause the reverse movement in the pound?

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 18:35

re pensions (I know I know) isn't it much more likely that how pensions will be dealt with will be part of the wider exit negotiations and deals? Is this naive to assume?

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 18:39

I think people do have to fight in the best way they can to change things though. You are doing a great job here. Smile
lovely post EmilyAlice

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 18:39

Sorry to say but nothing will change until DM-reader pensioners feel the economic disadvantage of Brexit. May only cares about the next election and she evidently only spoke to them.

This could be 20-30 years though!

TuckersBadLuck · 17/01/2017 18:42

So we're having:

A not-a-customs-union without the negative side (EU negotiating our external tariffs)
A free trade deal
Access to the EU for our financial services sector
No freedom of movement
No ECJ

Isn't that just the same as being in the single market, without FOM and the ECJ? Or in other words 'have cake and eat it'.

Has anything changed?

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 18:44

What a load of old cobblers, almost all of the first post is a load of twaddle.

The UK voted to leave the EU, May has just outlined that we are leaving the EU, what a surprise. She gave some very good sensible ways to do that. So I feel quite proud to finally have a strong leader that knows what she is doing and seems to be turning the corner and taking us forward.

3 cheers.

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 18:44

Thank you Red

This betrayal of young people is one of the aspects that get me really angry and I am on the verge of collecting my nice secure index linked pension. My DDs called it in the early days, when one came into my bedroom at 5am on the morning after the referendum and screamed "Have you seen what they have fucking done? " and the other spoke quietly later in the day that so much of what was happening even them was so similar tow hat happened in Germany in the thirties......

I think what many older leave voters, and indeed the middle England of the Home Counties that has formed May's own consciousness, don't get is that they have an implicit arrogance and illusions of entitlement and superiority that were forged in classrooms equipped with atlas's where large swathes of the globe were coloured pink, where you learned about an Empire on which the sun never set. For some of us our life experience has made us conscious of that perspective and its redundancy, but for young people who have grown up as European it isn't there in the first place.

So when May talk about grandparents making decisions for their children and grandchildren focusing on us taking to the seas again to do global trade she is evoking those illusions, that we will rule the waves again. The rest of us know just how bankrupt they are.

The reality is that a broken Britain will be going out with a begging bowl to the likes of Trump and Xi and all our brightest and best will be off to live somewhere that is not governed by those with such a deluded narrow minded mindset.

I do take issue with your statement that the big corporates will be having wet dreams about the license to exploit. Plenty of our big well run businesses, and organisations, actually put ethics and corporate social responsibility at the heart of their business strategy. Corporate Business Strategy is subject to cyclical fashions and it was very much the cause de jour before the Brexit vote. I do know that there are companies for which the move to Europe will not just be necessitated by Brexit but will also be a move that is more of a fit between their corporate ethos, their employee's values and the political environment. I think the wet dreams are far more likely to be being enjoyed by the owners of SMEs, who blind to the inadequacy of their own business skills, have long propped up the bars of Conservative Clubs across the country seeking privilege and the policies in their self interest that May is delivering.

howabout · 17/01/2017 18:48

Does anyone have a clear idea about what was so different in May's speech to Hammond's summary of it at the weekend as to cause the reverse movement in the pound?

At the weekend it looked oversold through shorting with traders hoping to bid it down continuously as a drip drip of Brexit news emerged. TM called their bluff by providing Hard Brexit certainty. The market moving in opposition to the currency looks like not much of the trading is underpinned by thinking on fundamentals.

Also inflation overshoot today may have increased prospect of earlier interest rate rises.

pointythings · 17/01/2017 18:55

I do worry about the younger generation. My DDs have and will continue to have Dutch passports through me. They will be able to go to university and work anywhere in the EU, not have to face massive student debts and make a life for themselves. Their friends - bright, talented young people - have had those opportunities snatched away from them. It's tragic.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 18:56

"What a load of old cobblers, almost all of the first post is a load of twaddle.
The UK voted to leave the EU, May has just outlined that we are leaving the EU, what a surprise. She gave some very good sensible ways to do that. So I feel quite proud to finally have a strong leader that knows what she is doing and seems to be turning the corner and taking us forward.

3 cheers."

Mr May? Wink

RubyPumps · 17/01/2017 18:56

Didn't see there was a new thread. Thanks red Flowers

Today's gbpusd rise expected to slowly sink back down.

Never thought UK would come to this. Wondering how long before scotref#2 is announced. Nicola gave a good speech today, sadly.

PattyPenguin · 17/01/2017 18:58

Supermummy, The UK voted to leave the EU...

No, 51.9% of the people who voted, voted to leave, as opposed to 48.1% who voted Remain.

A 3.8% margin is not a huge one.

Also, you say that Theresa May "gave some very good sensible ways" to leave the EU. Could you repeat them for me? I couldn't spot them myself so would appreciate some insight.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 19:04

A 3.8% margin is not a huge one

That's how democracy works, the largest vote wins, the people have spoken.

Squigglypig · 17/01/2017 19:05

Thank you Red and everyone who contributes. I am deeply worried and fed up by the complete lack of accountability demonstrated by Teresa May and her cronies. Also the sneering attitude of the leavers who come across as though they are straight out of Little Britain. I am a lifelong labour voter but will be voting Lib Democrats at the next opportunity. I hope it's not too late by then. This thread pulls it all together for me.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 19:05

Plenty of our big well run businesses, and organisations, actually put ethics and corporate social responsibility at the heart of their business strategy

Fair point.

The trouble is that there might be less incentive to be like this anymore. Every incentive to do the opposite in a race to the bottom. Why are places like Sport Direct doing it in the first place? Its not simply because immigrants will except it when British workers won't.

Having worked for a small business, yeah workers there will be even more screwed though.

DH has a member of his extended family who is very excited at Brexit. He is currently advertising for people to do piece work at a very low rate. To say we are somewhat unimpressed is a little bit of an understatement.

OP posts:
Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 19:08

Theresa May "gave some very good sensible ways" to leave the EU. Could you repeat them for me

We aren't going to muck about we now have a clean clear position, which is something business likes.
We are going to be able to trade with the rest of the world.
We are going to be able to make our own laws.
We wont have to pay massive amounts of money to Brussels.
We will be able to control our own boarders.
I could go on but the speech is on TV, just watch it.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 19:11

Every incentive to do the opposite in a race to the bottom.
Untrue
workers there will be even more screwed
Untrue

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 19:14

Andy Lewis @lecanardnoir "The one question for your MP: Do you think the Leave Campaign would have won a majority on May’s proposed terms?"

The above seems a good idea to me. Someone needs to get behind a massive writing campaign to every MP in the country.

You know what though: I'm more angry with Labour than the Tories right now. The Tories are, with a few notable exceptions (Anna Soubrey, Ken Clark, Andrew Tyrie and some others) a bunch of fuckwits and fascists many of whom are elected in constituencies where you could elect a goldfish wearing a blue rosette (in some constituencies, like the Welsh one in which my uncle lives - his MP is the other David Davies - they seem to have done just that). They are doing what Tories do.

But Labour! They are fucking over the poor, immigrants, liberals and the disabled - all in the pursuit of Ukip votes that may not even be winnable.

I feel for the likes of David Lammy, but there are not many Labour MPs who can hold their heads up and speak for centre left voters like me.

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 19:19

Mr May

I expect Mr May can spell the meal that you eat in the evening, and the things that you pass through on your way into and out of a country.

unicornsIlovethem · 17/01/2017 19:19

Is there any more news on Liz Kendall? She was rumoured to be stepping down as well. I agree Misti, TM's behaviour is as expected, but Labour really should be mounting a competent opposition. Not conceding the referendum while supporting free movement!!

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 19:20

That's how democracy works, the largest vote wins, the people have spoken.

If you would like to contribute to discussion and put forward a leave point of view we would actually like to hear. There are even a few leavers who do contribute here.

If you can't get beyond the 'will of the people' nonsense , then there isn't a lot of point of responding.

Democracy is an ongoing process otherwise we would only have one political party in the first place. The people are continuing to speak, as strangely enough last time I checked I'm a person too.

Its called free speech and debate.

Seriously, if you have a problem with my OP, then like other posters here, explain why. Several have disagreed with parts of it already.

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PattyPenguin · 17/01/2017 19:25

We aren't going to muck about we now have a clean clear position, which is something business likes.
Unless that clean, clear position has a damaging effect on their business. Then they won't like it. They will complain. If they can, they will move to another country.

We are going to be able to trade with the rest of the world.
But on what terms? What will the tariffs be on the goods and services that we export? And what regulations will we have to abide by? If indeed there is much we can export. Also, when countries say they're eager to trade with us, they generally mean they want to sell us stuff. They're generally less keen on buying from us.

We are going to be able to make our own laws.
We can already do that. But have you really thought about what laws a Tory government would like to pass with no brake on them? Getting rid of maternity leave? Allowing all kinds of additives in food? That kind of thing.

We wont have to pay massive amounts of money to Brussels.
No, but we may well have to pay massive amounts for customs officers to stop and check imports and massive amounts in tariffs on top of our exports, and possibly on our imports.

We will be able to control our own boarders.
We already do. We're not in the borderless Schengen area.

Or did you mean we won't be allowing immigrants in? Then bang goes a large part of our higher education sector, our rather successful scientific research and biotechnology sectors, and a large part of our agricultural sector Also, much of our creative sector may well move to Berlin.

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