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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Thread gallery
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woman12345 · 17/01/2017 16:22

WifeofDarth Flowers

EmilyAlice · 17/01/2017 16:26

Thanks for that Red and I don't disagree with any of it. I was in Paris in '68 and a founder member in the 70s of the Women's Liberation group where we lived, so I do remember the rage we felt against the establishment and how hard we tried to change things.
I think we were lucky as a generation because we inherited the society and the welfare state that the post-war Labour government fought for. The selfish Thatcherism of the eighties was appalling and the right-wing press even worse. I don't see that it would have helped if we had not bought houses or paid into pension schemes, but I hated the way some people made money out of houses they didn't live in and out of the privatisation of state owned industries.
I think people do have to fight in the best way they can to change things though. You are doing a great job here. Smile

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 16:27

Former chancellor Lord Lamont praised Theresa May's Brexit speech,
Norman Lafuckingblackwednesdaymont
I know this isn't a sweary thread, but it's about the only good thing the anglo saxons did for this country.......immigrants.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 16:32

woman12345 I feel very sweary right now.

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user1471448556 · 17/01/2017 16:32

This:

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.
PattyPenguin · 17/01/2017 16:33

All getting behind Brexit?

I like the reaction from CBI director general Carolyn Fairbairn (my bold):
"Businesses ... stand ready to support the negotiations to get the best possible deal for the UK by ensuring that the economic case is heard loud and clear."

I wonder when the Fail etc will start accusing the CBI of negativism and carping and talking the UK down.

I like even better the Daily Mash's headline - "Uniting behind Brexit a bit hard if you think it's shit".

Lico · 17/01/2017 16:34

Thanks Red.

TheElementsSong · 17/01/2017 16:40

Thanks Red - feeling really quite sick again today Sad

MsHooliesCardigan · 17/01/2017 16:41

All it needs now is for TM to start calling those of us who don't agree with the suicide of leaving the single market 'Moaning Minnies'.

lurkinghusband · 17/01/2017 16:52

With all due respect Mr Lamont. Fuck off

You beat me to it Grin ...

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 17:01

Feels like we're edging towards the sort of country British people used to have had trade sanctions with.
South Africa, under apartheid couldn't host sports events, pop concerts and certainly not trade freely, because of its racist policies.
Who'd want to trade with a nation with legalised racist policies, disablist benefits system and one that Chamberlained up to fascistii?
Swedish gov has openly expressed dismay at racism towards EU citizens, who will start to boycott us?

lalalonglegs · 17/01/2017 17:04

Can I join the rest of you on the sick bench and get a bit fucking sweary at the bastard shitstorm we are in?

Bobochic (on the last thread): The whole thing is so outrageous that sometimes I wonder whether T May is having us all on and pushing for a Remain revolution. What kind of basket case post-Brexit scenario will finally push the Brexiters to see sense?

I often wondered that too but I've come out of denial and it's time to get angry, really angry.

lurkinghusband · 17/01/2017 17:11

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/17/why_mays_hard_brexit_might_be_soft_than_you_think/

Analysis The reality of red tape might mean the UK’s exit from the EU will take longer, and be softer, than the Prime Minister outlined today.

Theresa May ruled out “partial” membership of the EU in a bullish speech today. The UK would conclude a free trade agreement (FTA) within the two years permitted by the Article 50 process, she asserted, and if not, would leave with no deal rather than a bad deal. Nor did she want to be stuck in a “permanent political purgatory”

Her logic, she said, was that UK had voted overwhelmingly to end open borders, which after EU enlargement had seen a flood of cheap labour from Eastern Europe – a boon to bosses, as it suppresses wages. One can hardly blame a politician for putting self-preservation first in wanting to get re-elected; in reality, no politician outside a handful of mostly leafy, Left-leaning city enclaves can run on a ticket of EU-style open borders and have a hope of getting elected.

But May now faces a cliff edge, argues Richard North, the pro-Leave author and writer whose multi-year "Flexcit" process has exhaustingly outlined the practical challenges of leaving the EU. It just can’t be done overnight, he points out. And two years is "overnight".

North’s logic goes like this. Although we can make much of the process of Leaving easier – by accepting the acquis, as the government has promised, and guaranteeing to match EU funding for recipients in education and agriculture, we can’t hope to conclude a FTA in two years. These take several years to conclude.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 17:17

Michael Crick ‏*@MichaelLCrick*
Ukip spokesman says it's rubbish that Nuttall will be picked as candidate for Stoke Central by-election tonight. Nominations close tomorrow.

Nuttall hasn't got the guts to stand in Stoke Central. Having run the figures I think UKIP might have a shock coming there yet...

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FloweringDeranger · 17/01/2017 17:26

It's nice to have her clear message at last. She seems very certain about what the referendum meant. But the speed with which she's trying to push and the timing tells a different tale - that narrow interests are hoping to push things through against the wishes of many before we wake up from this mass hysteria on the one side and numb shock on the other.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 17:28

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
Security cooperation is a core component of UK Brexit strategy, but think what that entails: Give us what we want or we stop helping.
As in the EU citizens case, it's worth imagining what happens if they call our bluff. We get intelligence of an impending attack And what?
We do nothing and tell no-one? Morally unthinkable. But then the government keeps asking us to consider the morally unthinkable.

lawnewz.com/high-profile/breaking-gloria-allred-says-accuser-will-file-lawsuit-against-president-elect-trump/
Gloria Allred Says Accuser Will File Lawsuit Against President-Elect Trump Today

High-profile Los Angeles based attorney Gloria Allred will hold a press conference at 11:30 a.m. PST during which one of the women who accused Donald Trump of inappropriate sexual conduct will reportedly come forward to file a lawsuit against the President-elect.

Oh. Damn those nasty lawyers.

Ryan Heath ‏*@PoliticoRyan*
S&D source says Verhofstadt has lost their trust as #Brexit coordinator after center-right deal for #EPpresident - will seek to replace him

The Conservative grouping of the EP doesn't want Verhofstadt. Now the Socialist say they will back them in removing Verhofstadt.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Verhofstadt was very much in favour of this British EU citizens thing. I can only presume there might be a harder line against the British rather than a softer one given the reaction to May's speech.

Nicola Sturgeon ‏*@NicolaSturgeon*
Scottish Parliament has just voted - by a clear majority - for Scotland's place in the single market to be protected.

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.
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SapphireStrange · 17/01/2017 17:31

She seems very certain about what the referendum meant.

Trouble is, no fucker else is, are they? Despite her and others' protestations, the question of in or out of single market/customs union was not clarified on the ballot paper or in the run-up. In fact, and despite her outright lie about that today, both sides gave conflicting messages about that all the way up to the vote.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 17:42

"perfidious albion" Absolutely spot on wifeof.

I am banging on about pensions..... god knows what the pension age will be in 10, 20 years and what the statutory pension will amount to, it's barely anything today. I suspect that other, private pension schemes will remain protected for EU citizens who have paid into them even if they are not habitually resident i the UK?

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 17:44

Mark Elliott ‏*@ProfMarkElliott*
Lords Const Cttee reports on Digital Economy Bill. Concerns incl Henry VIII powers & lack of detail on face of bill

More Henry VIII powers?! And issues with the devolved assemblies??!

2. The Bill is wide-ranging. Among other things, it:
• addresses the position of consumers in relation to access to broadband services and the quality of those services;
• makes provision in respect of the building of digital infrastructure (e.g. by simplifying relevant planning rules);
• seeks to support digital industries by improving the regime for the protection of relevant intellectual property rights;
• makes provision in respect of Government digital services, including by authorising public authorities to share information;
• introduces age-verification requirements for websites that publish pornography in order to make it more difficult for children to access such material;
• makes Ofcom responsible for those aspects of regulating the BBC that are presently the responsibility of the BBC Trust.

4. The Bill contains 46 provisions concerning delegated powers, of which 12 are Henry VIII powers. While we leave it to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee to judge the appropriateness of each of these powers, we draw the House’s attention to the number—and in some cases, the scope—of the Henry VIII powers contained in the Bill.

5. We note in particular the Henry VIII power contained in Clause 6. This clause permits UK Government ministers to make provisions that are consequential upon the new Electronic Communications Code, including by amending or repealing not just legislation enacted by the UK Parliament, but also legislation enacted by the devolved legislatures. If the power in Clause 6 is used to amend, repeal or modify primary legislation, the affirmative procedure applies; otherwise, the negative procedure applies. However, while the Bill provides for the use of the affirmative procedure in the UK Parliament when Clause 6 is used in respect of primary legislation, the Bill does not provide for any involvement by the devolved legislatures or administrations when Clause 6 is used in respect of devolved primary legislation. There is, for instance, no requirement to secure the consent of or to consult relevant devolved legislatures.

7. We draw the attention of the House to Clause 6, which permits primary legislation passed by the devolved legislatures, as well as secondary devolved legislation, to be amended by statutory instrument at the behest of a UK Government minister without the consent or involvement of the relevant devolved legislatures or governments. We would welcome an explanation from the Government as to why the Bill contains no procedural safeguards requiring the consent of, or at the very least consultation with, the relevant devolved legislature or government when the UK Government seeks to amend devolved legislation.

This para is in bold. As is this one:

18. We would welcome an explanation from Government as to why it has chosen not to set out in statute the framework under which the BBC is to be regulated, as is the case with Channel 4, including such protections as may be considered necessary to protect the BBC’s independence.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldconst/96/96.pdf

Nothing to see here. Move along like a good little citizen. Government knows best. Its all about protecting the children from pornography.

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user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 17:45

And wrt scotland, I know that the SNP is hated by many and that they run on spin and ideology an that allegedly the scottish education system is in a bit of a state........ however in the context of Brexit NS feels, to me, like a light in the darkness.

CrystalMcPistol · 17/01/2017 17:47

I think Indyref II just got a major shot in the arm.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 17:54

On the delegated powers and today's travesty:
"the conch exploded into a thousand white fragments and ceased to exist"
The Lord of the Flies, chapter 11.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 18:09

This fella:
Godfrey Bloom @goddersbloom
^The reality is Leavers create wealth, Remainers in the main consume it.
When push comes to shove Remainers are of no value to society.^

Tweet now deleted.

Is this fella:
Will Black ‏*@WillBlackWriter*
Ah yes, Godfrey Bloom, the Ukip luminary who said women are "sluts" if they don't frequently clean behind fridges

Nice fella.

Can we invite him for a web chat on MN please?

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RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 18:12

From Guardian Live Feed:

Jean-Claude Piris, a former head of the European council’s legal service, told the Guardian that the speech contained no big surprises except the proposal for “a bizarre customs union” with the EU, which, he said, would not be allowed under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, the trade pact that falls under the World Trade Organisation. “The GATT/WTO would not allow such thing, neither the EU,” he said in emailed comments. “Ask Turkey.”

Turkey has a customs deal in goods with the EU, but has to open its markets to any country with an EU trade deal, without having much say. Piris said:

"Otherwise she is asking for the moon, which is normal at the starting of negotiations. She is logically requesting the vital period of transition the UK badly needs, and is affirming that the issue of the Irish borders shall be solved without saying how."

In her speech May said she wanted “a completely new customs agreement” but had an open mind about how to work this out. She suggested associated membership of the EU customs union or signing up to some elements of it.

Fredrik Erixon, director of the European Centre for Political Economy, said the “only realistic option” for the UK was a free-trade agreement with the EU.

^"One cannot have half a customs union. That would break WTO rules. I think it is obvious the UK will have to leave all its current trade arrangements through the EU and start with a new agreement.
What she is probably nodding towards is an arrangement where there wouldn’t be tariffs introduced between the UK and the EU through a free-trade agreement."^

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ElenaGreco123 · 17/01/2017 18:14

Peregrina Sorry to say but nothing will change until DM-reader pensioners feel the economic disadvantage of Brexit. May only cares about the next election and she evidently only spoke to them.
I was a bit amazed that 42% of the welfare budget is spent on pensions and pension spending increased with 25% since 2010/11. It is ONS data, but I am not a pension statistics expert visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/

I was meant to count down the years to retirement myself, but it is getting more and more delayed with my highest earning years being in a different EU country. So grim.

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