Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Inkanta · 17/01/2017 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2017 20:32

"I think the EU are just pissed off we are standing up for ourselves instead of doing what we are told and accepting whatever crumbs they threw our way."

You do realise that being part of the EU means that the UK is part of "they"? There is no Brussels v UK - Murdoch, Fail and Express have painted that picture.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:37

whatwouldrondo There is plenty of evidence that companies are firming up plans to move out of the UK.

I am not disagreeing with that but contingency plans is not the same as actually leaving the UK. How many times have business made threats, about the implications of workers rights, minimum wage, taxes, a Labour government etc etc. Do you really want business to dictate how we run our country?

So far the UK is growing far better than the EU, why would companies leave a successful country and go to Europe where their is no growth?

TuckersBadLuck · 17/01/2017 20:38

'oh look isn't our economy doing fabulously

The answer to that one isn't 'Because the UK is still in the EU...', it's "oh no it's not".

A small rise in exports when much of what we export is priced in foreign currency actually means that we're exporting less.

As an example, all Nissan's Sunderland output is sold to a Swiss holding company at a fixed Euro price. So last year's turnover was £5.2bn or €6.76bn at last year's exchange rate. If they sell the same €6.76bn worth of cars this year they'll be worth a £5.95bn.

That's a whopping 14.5% increase in output at Nissan without producing a single extra car. It's a Brexit success story!

Unfortunately all the imported components and materials are costing them an extra 14.5% as well, but that's a minor detail.

WifeofDarth · 17/01/2017 20:38

Thanks for the flowers woman , my first ever, I was very touched. Should disclose that I wasn't there for the LitUK test, but something similar to enable me to train in one of the shortage professions. Not sure now whether it's sensible to follow through.
Thoroughly agree with whoever said up thread (misti of user?) that we have been failed by labour.

CrystalMcPistol · 17/01/2017 20:39

'And big news that first wife has decided to testify. This if for real.'

Wasn't Ivana his first wife? I thought they had her very much toeing the Trump party line.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:41

Recollect also that Cameron was going to invoke A50 immediately in the event of a Leave vote. He was also going to stay on as PM and then an MP. He's done non of those things. The predictions were based on that happening

The predictions were based on bugger all, no one thought it would ever happen, no plans were made to leave, it was fear mongering pure and simple.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 20:46

UNILEVER CEO PAUL POLMAN
"^What we need to do is make sure that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot and we have a solution that is good for the UK, good for Europe and ultimately good for the long term.
"My opinion unfortunately was different but that doesn't mean that we are not 100 percent focused now on trying to reduce the damage as much as possible^."
OPPOSITION LABOUR LEADER JEREMY CORBYN ON SKY NEWS
She has said 'leave the single market' but at the same time said she wants to have access to the single market. I'm not sure how that's going to go down in Europe ... She seems to be wanting to have her cake and eat it
He's not quite got Obama's flair has he? Go Jeremy! I mean go.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:47

I think the EU are just pissed off we are standing up for ourselves

Or they are completely fed up with a country whining for special deal after special deal and have finally said - 'go on then'.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:48

She's still stoking up division at home. How does going on about children and grandchildren help negotiations? How does it close divisions and make people support her? How does it reassure people? How does it make young people feel like its a good thing for them?

Maybe she is failing or maybe some people just wont have their minds changed but when you are attempting to bring the country together you have to be positive, and that is what her speech was. She was trying to sell it, as a good thing, and looking at how the news channels are reporting it she seems to have had some success.

As for the EU, we have to start negotiations with a strong hand we have to play hard ball to make sure we get a good deal. We cannot go in bowed down begging for something.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 20:49

they had her very much toeing the Trump party line she was forced to keep quiet, so super brave of her, if this is all definitely coming out.
370 ( almost doubled in number in a week) women's marches across the world might have brought the feminist out in quite a few women.Smile

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:50

“So what I don’t understand when reading the Prime Minister's statement or listening to my Right Honourable Friend is which country in the world is going to enter into a trade agreement with this country on the basis that the rules are entirely what the British say they’re going to be on any particular day and if there’s any dispute about the rules it’s going to be sorted out by the British Government.” Ken Clarke in the Commons today.

TuckersBadLuck · 17/01/2017 20:51

Suppermummy02

You said "Freedom of movement means Anyone in the EU can come to the UK" - it doesn't mean that at all. It means any EU citizen can come to the UK to work, that's not the same as 'Anyone in the EU'.

Umm so the EU companies bringing goods into the UK wont have to pay tariffs if we have to?

Umm, no. because it isn't 'EU companies bringing goods into the UK', it's UK companies importing them. The person or company buying the goods in the UK always ends up paying the import duty - what you call the 'tariffs'. If I buy a BMW manufactured in Germany and there's a 10% tariff on it then it increases the imported cost, at the dock, by 10%. The importer (BMW UK) passes that cost on to me, the customer. it doesn't cost anyone in the EU a penny, it costs the British consumer.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:52

OPPOSITION LABOUR LEADER JEREMY CORBYN ON SKY NEWS
She has said 'leave the single market' but at the same time said she wants to have access to the single market. I'm not sure how that's going to go down in Europe ... She seems to be wanting to have her cake and eat it

Confused isn't that exactly what Canada have just negotiated? Whats so hard to comprehend, a free trade deal. Loads of countries have them without having to have free movement of people.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 20:53

I sometimes wish you would take a leaf out of the French left's book and start dumping cauliflowers or manure in front of parliament. Grin
Not that I'm advocating it in any way, but I do remember angry French farmers throwing livestock about in a protest.
Poop and brassicas sound just as effective, we have a lot of both in Britain fortunately.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/01/2017 20:54

I will not allow Theresa May to play me like a puppet on a string.

You cannot give an offensive, divisive speech like the "citizens of nowhere" one and then a few months later tell everyone to unite. No fucking chance. The referendum and the resulting Brexit is a mess of Tory party making. Hold them to account.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 20:54

*I think the EU are just pissed off we are standing up for ourselves

Or they are completely fed up with a country whining for special deal after special deal and have finally said - 'go on then'.*

Either works. The EU wasn't working for us so we are leaving.

TuckersBadLuck · 17/01/2017 20:55

Poop and brassicas sound just as effective, we have a lot of both in Britain fortunately.

Nobody to pick the brassicas now though...

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 20:55

I view politicians essentially as equals not superiors who have vastly better knowledge. They might have better knowledge in certain areas and they have advisors and experience. At the same time they are short on time and have lots of other issues to deal with which means they are stretched thinly too and are dependent on others.

I think it dangerous to put blind trust into politicians for this reason. Its somewhat disturbing. As are the attempts to by-pass parliament. As are the attempts to undermine the rule of law.

If Brexit has the merit is does, then persuade people. Don't tell them to shut up, call them patronising or subverting the will of the people.

Engage. Make the case.

In the absence of that, I don't feel I have a choice but to ask questions and to be cynical about it.

Positive Brexit is about more than believing. Its about demonstrating how it will actually work in practice. Its about getting beyond the ideology. Its resolving these questions over rights. Its about treating EU nationals with respect rather than playing this hideous immoral game of bargaining chips.

If doing that is patronising, then I'll accept that, but I think these questions need to be answered and its unacceptable for them to be wrapped up in secrecy because its a game of poker. Its not. Its people's real lives and future not a game.

Accountability is crucial to the democratic process. What people vote for is important, but at the same time just because people vote for X in a manifesto doesn't mean that proposal will and should become law. How an act of law will work and its implementation needs proper public consultation and parliamentary involvement as part of the process. Its not just about the idea but the practical details that are important. I don't see leaving the EU as any different. The idea of leaving the EU is not necessarily wrong. How it is implemented is though. If the proposals are poor they should be challenged robustly.

OP posts:
GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/01/2017 20:56

The EU wasn't working for us so we are leaving.

"us" being The Sun, Daily Mail and a handful off Tories, not 65 million people.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 20:56

In what way was her speech positive? It was more of the same empty words that we have come to expect from her. She wants to do something for the people who are just managing? Actions so far? Zilch.

Blather about being global and international when you have just kicked out 50,000 students illegally. Sure they are going to go back to their countries and say how wonderful it was. EU citizens and British spouses completely in the dark as to whether they are going to able to stay together as a family? Not my idea of being global and international.

India and Pakistan gained their Independence in 1947 Mrs May - before you were born, so the unravelling of the Empire was well underway by the time you came into this world.

HashiAsLarry · 17/01/2017 20:57

Freedom of movement means Anyone in the EU can come to the UK, we are not allowed to stop them.

FOM means EU citizens - not anyone who happens to be in the EU - can come to the UK provided they don't fail on certain conditions and can financially support themselves. We have the rights to remove them if they cannot self support. Exactly the same as UK citizens who move to other EU countries.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 17/01/2017 20:59

The referendum and the resulting Brexit is a mess of Tory party making

No, the main issue - ie immigration started under Blair and we all know how he handled that. Its his making, put the blame at New Labours door.

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 21:00

Supermummy So you think businesses put good money into firming up strategic plans (it does not come cheap I can assure you, diversion of resources from money making activities, expensive consultants like me that charge £1000 per day minimum, a lot more currently for Brexit related expertise e.g. trade negotiation, it's a feeding frenzy) just for the purposes of calling May's bluff?

And yes given that business generates the money that pays for our welfare state, both in direct taxes and the taxes of all the people in the economy who directly or indirectly earn a living as a result, I do not think you should ignore them when they say that you are about to pull the rug from under their feet in terms of their ability to compete. It isn't just business you know, our world beating knowledge economy is also generated by our universities and Scientists.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 21:02

We have the rights to remove them if they cannot self support. Exactly the same as UK citizens who move to other EU countries. The fact that the British Govt has not done so, is the the UK Government's failing. That doesn't make a good story for the Fascist Daily Mail or the Tory headbangers.