Can we stqrt calling it what is is?

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

It's not exit, it's independence. Alternatively we should call it sovereignty or self rule.

It would be lovely if my MP listened, or even understood the impact of her own party's policies but she doesn't.

The £ has already lost value. If this had happened under a Labour government the press would be screaming about their incompetence. Under May's Tories - hardly a peep. "Oh well, it was overvalued."

If you voted Leave don't whinge when your foreign holiday costs more, because that is what you voted for.

Surely Wellthatsit you've sat down and analysed the impact of the leaving of the single market and customs union?

It's hardly rocket science.

I don't know why you're implying it some kind of mystic crystal ball reading, it's just basic economics.

Expensive foreign holidays probably isn't what leavers voted for, but they will be a consequence.

But the value of the pound, while hitting some people, benefits others eg tourists coming here and businesses that export, which illustrates my point about it not being a blanket good or bad, but a mixture.

Tatiana, no I haven't analysed it.

But I suppose I was saying that there are things we cans till influence - domestically - regardless of what happens in Brexit. I fear there is a bit of a fatalistic reaction - 'we're doomed' sort of thing going on, which isn't helpful (maybe stemming from the same place as 'not taking personal responsibly mentality')

Except that some things like poor diet stem from poverty - it's cheaper to fill up on sugary cereals than to eat healthily. Compare an impoverished peasant society where most people scratch a living, but keep a few chickens and grow some of their own veg, so have a reasonably nutritious diet with the urban poor who have to buy all their food.

But we don't know what will be put in place instead of customs union or single market yet, so it is a crystal ball scenario, which is why so many people still disagree whether Brexit is good or bad.

Well My view that the hard Brexit that May is signalling will be an economic disaster comes from talking to people who work in the sectors of the UK economy that are the sources of competitive advantage in global markets, namely financial services, science and Tech. They are very clear that their competitiveness stems to a very significant degree from membership of the EU. Many people in these industries, including my own family, are planning their own exit from the UK in the event of a hard Brexit. This is not a matter of we'll it might be better than we fear, these are people who understand exactly what the impact will be on those parts of the economy that do compete in global markets.

One thing that really sums up the scale of people's ignorance of global economics is continually citing Asian economies like South Korea and Singapore as examples of what the U.K. could look like. Now if you disregard the very real issues with their governance and inequalities in their society , they are successful because of their actual (ASEAN) or de facto regional alliances. Just like the UK more than 50% of their trade is with their neighbours, and their neighbours are the fastest growing economies of the world whose average wages have been rising as the west's declined. The Asian economies see Brexit as their opportunity to continue that growth in the face of the UK's decline in competitiveness. That is why Xi described the Brexit vote as proof that democracy is the enemy of good stable government......

Many people in these industries, including my own family, are planning their own exit from the UK in the event of a hard Brexit. This is not a matter of we'll it might be better than we fear, these are people who understand exactly what the impact will be on those parts of the economy that do compete in global markets.

Bolding mine. My family are likely to go too - I would say when rather than if. Great - we want to build a more international society and we drive out our educated people.

Let's call it what it is - a total omnifuckup being led by a wannabe dictator who is so arrogant that she's happy to tank the economy to make her mark.

All this whining "Oh, but nobody knows what it'll be like" is pathetic shit. We do know what a lot of it will be like which is why companies are preparing for it, and we can already see what the rest of the world thinks of it as the pound steadily sinks - and that's without actually leaving.

Any idiot who wails "Oh, but we can do free trade deals with the US and New Zealand" patently has a) no idea about international deals, and b) hasn't paid attention to how the US (and China) tend to do deals with considerably smaller countries (that's us on our own, in case you didn't understand). Whoop-de-fucking-doo.

I think it's great news, whatever you want to call it

whatwouldrondo - sorry to hear about your family having to move for their careers and what they are predicting has been strongly predicted by those opposing hard brexit. I fear they will be correct.
But I don't think it's pathetic shit, as cardinal says, to be a bit circumspect about things. And I think people SHOULD stop ranting (not accusing you of this ron) about how it IS a disaster. We can predict some specific things but there are a lot of other factors that are still unknown - like Trump and China - that are going to be big influences.
Staying in would have kept the status quo, with all its faults but also all its advantages - it's what I wanted to happen for sure. But, it wasn't a guarantee of future prosperity.
There are many cracks in the EU facade, not just those created by Brexit. Who's to say how long the EU will survive?

Can I be first on this thread to suggest "A Clusterfuck"?

(Is there a prize for best guess?)

We are absolutely screwed and I am horrified and furious.

Oh as usual the Remainers come out with insults ,

Why are you so superior and arrogant sounding ? Your way or the Highway seems to be your outlooks on it .

Its happening so stop insulting people who voted differently to yourselves. Had to check it was EU Referendum and not AIBU such is some of the venom on here (seen both sides do it on threads in this section) .

Oh I voted Remain.

What's a clusterfuck?

If people naively believed the NHS promise (for example) I will call them naive (and quite possibly stupid). Just as I believe there was nothing wrong in Gordon Brown calling that bigoted woman a bigot.

But I don't think it's pathetic shit, as cardinal says, to be a bit circumspect about things. And I think people SHOULD stop ranting (not accusing you of this ron) about how it IS a disaster. We can predict some specific things but there are a lot of other factors that are still unknown - like Trump and China - that are going to be big influences.

True in part. The statement though, puts me in mind of what happened during the last War. It was by no means a disaster for everyone. E.g. DH's grandfather had been in and out of work during the 1930s despite having a skilled trade. The war came and he found good well paid work and was never out of work again and lived to enjoy a comfortable retirement. MIL had her horizons widened significantly and again had good well paid work which would not have happened. The foundations of the welfare state were laid. But having said that - how many people chose War over Peace?

It's a long-awaited escape.

But a war scenario isn't the same is it, because very few people would chose it. Brexit was democratically chosen.

But it does show that things are very rarely black and white.

What is known about Trump is that he's anti-TTIP as he's said so. He believes it concedes way too much in the way of US interests, and damages US workers and companies.

So we can expect a much less favourable trade deal offered by the US.

Infinitesheldon. Didn't mean to be bossy it's just that no one who voted Leave I have spoken to has been able to tell me how their life will improve. The Leave campaign used emotions rather than facts, but given we are set to lose such a lot by leaving the EU, I really want to know what my children will gain.

A4 - an escape from what exactly?

It's telling our closest neighbours to F-Off and aligning ourselves with Trump. May is truly nasty.

"Oh I voted Remain." Sure...