Can we stqrt calling it what is is?

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

It's not exit, it's independence. Alternatively we should call it sovereignty or self rule.

But we had a vote in the EU (bangs head on wall emoticon), we just didn't really pay attention to it

I dont think it was a vote in the sense I mean the way your framing it but lets say it was - and everyone missed it - why?

Because its over in the EU - removed - far away from whats happening here!

Lets face it, not hard to bury bad news here in the UK is it! How on earth are we supposed to keep abreast of UK politics as well as whats going on over there all the time, because they are sneaky.

They are known to float ideas and no one notices them - so suddenly they are policy. Thanks Mother for pointing out yet another problem with two layers of politics.

If people can't be bothered to engage with the political process and e.g write to their MP to express their views, then yes, they will get what the politicians think people want (or what the more self serving of them think will serve their and their party's interests

Personally I take as much interest as I can and am happy to and have fired off many emails when necessary to my local MP and to number 10.

Recent poll ( not that I set any store by them myself but I am led to believe many posters on here set great store by them) said more than two to one back TM on the EU.

Yay, we're back to all Remainers fears being dismissed as nonsense by Leavers with absolutely no reasons/ evidence given to allay the very valid concerns those people have- pretty much at the level of the pub thread.

I can't bring myself to call it independence however, grudgingly have to accept the result.

I think UK politics is in turmoil at the moment, hope I'm wrong but, I can't see us "celebrating" independence in 10 years.

Wrong,. I don't understand why people's own views on how they would like their country run are less valid than research. Some people have different values - research is not going to be able to measure that.

'values' are a construct and are relative. They don't mean anything outside the group who have decided to have them and stick to them.

Statements based on evidence, like 'immigration is good for a country with an ageing population', are not relative.

Populism: here's a useful definition from Wikipedia. 'Populism is a political style of action that mobilizes a large alienated element of population against a government seen as controlled by an out-of-touch closed elite that acts on behalf of its own interests'.

Why do I think it's a problem: people who are already alienated are not so likely to make well-thought-out decisions. NB I put the blame for much alienation squarely on successive UK governments and their failure to invest in areas of the UK disadvantaged by the disappearance of traditional industries and the accompanying economy.

Also, the 'elite' rhetoric rings very very false when you consider some of the prominent Leavers and their backgrounds/circumstances. Is Boris Johnson not part of an elite? Aaron Banks? Nigel Farage?

I am taking that in the sense of the Catholic Church and the sacrament of reconciliation i.e. saying sorry for your sins.

Now I didn't interpret it in that way. I took it to mean restoring friendly co-operation. As Jo Cox said, we have more in common than divides us. Sadly at the moment, it looks as though her death was in vain. We are most definitely not getting reconciliation from May and Johnson.

"Semi I like your healing analogy and the thing is - however you want to frame it - Remainers - some do need to look at some sort of healing and reconciliation. "

No. This is very much not what Remainers need to do. What they need to do is to get out there and fight this fucking slow motion car crash.

Remainers - some do need to look at some sort of healing and reconciliation

ROFL

Because its over in the EU - removed - far away from whats happening here!

The UK is part of the EU, therefore it's not happening "over there".

Lets face it, not hard to bury bad news here in the UK is it! How on earth are we supposed to keep abreast of UK politics as well as whats going on over there all the time, because they are sneaky.

Sneaky and out to get the innocent gentlefolk of the UK no doubt.

They are known to float ideas and no one notices them - so suddenly they are policy.

Agreement is needed for things to become policy.

We are part of the "they". We do not have things done to us, we are part of the whole.

There is no hope that views like this will ever change.

But 'fighting' the 'car crash' isn't going to help. It will only cement the resolve of every leaver to get a good hard brexit!

The 'march in March' won't gain anything, it will just make everyone roll their eyes at those 'remainiacs' who can't accept the result.

Because its over in the EU - removed - far away from whats happening here!

What happening here or rather the problems happening here have all be manufactured by British governments. The EU has been pouring money into deprived areas and assisting regeneration but hey I'm sure the Tories will do the same after Brexit.

The 'march in March' won't gain anything, it will just make everyone roll their eyes at those 'remainiacs' who can't accept the result.

Democracy did not end in June 2016. Roll away, I'll march all the same.

Oh good god! Are we still bemoaning the apparent certainties of that something that hasn't happened yet?

Look! No one knows what will happen - no one!

So, regardless of how you voted, try pondering the positives of the future , instead of beating your anonymous e-opponents over the head with the decaying body of "What Was".

Both sides - you are getting really fucking boring now! Maundering and fighting and name calling is really pointless. If you are in a position to do so get off your arse and act... if you are not, try not to depress yourself and others with shite guesstimates and sniping. It's utterly pointless!

You might want to stop bemoaning the bemoaning, Ourblanche. I'd say that was a whole other level of pointlessness.

Yup, you roll your eyes, we'll march and lobby.

You might call them "shite guesstimates" but they are working hypotheses developed from the information we have available.

Personally I prefer to plan my own future rather than wait for it to happen to me.

You might want to stop bemoaning the bemoaning, Ourblanche. I'd say that was a whole other level of pointlessness

Have to agree with Kaija there

far away from whats happening here!
Ah yes, fog in the channel, Continent cut off.

"fog in the channel, Continent cut off."

Do you remember the happy time when we laughed at this because it was a delusion from a past era, rather than the entire basis of current government policy?

Yup I will be marching and help maintain the pressure on our MP who clearly does not feel comfortable with what is happening and has already experienced the impact of the strong feelings of remain voters at second hand campaigning for Zac.

I will also keep up with my day job which is for the most part directly concerned with businesses who trade outside the EU. I love helping to build bridges between the UK and a culture I have worked hard to understand, which is precisely why I will keep buggering on trying to get people in the UK to understand just how badly this is affecting our ability to compete overseas and our brand in the rest of the world.

I thought the March in March was primarily about women standing together, and against Trump's misogyny.

Quite sad really if it's being hijacked by a crowd of garment rending Remainers draped in EU flags.

You're mixed up with the one on Saturday, SemiPermanent.

So the march in january is about Trump

And the one in march is about brexit

Aah! Ok, sorry

The EU has been pouring money into deprived areas and assisting regeneration

Our money given back to us you mean .