Can we stqrt calling it what is is?

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

It's not exit, it's independence. Alternatively we should call it sovereignty or self rule.

Yup, you roll your eyes, we'll march and lobby. Oooh! An assumption!

And you also seem to have tried wearing a cap that doesn't fit!

Never mind!

What assumption?

Personally I prefer to plan my own future rather than wait for it to happen to me. Which just shows you read what I posted.... or maybe not!

The point is that the futile moaning, from both sides, is bloody pointless. Those of you who have had a snipe at me have missed my point, you seem to be doing something other than paying your POV lip service! So nothing I posted applied to you!

Many here just moan and, when asked, seem to have no inclination to actually do anything... just moan and be negative, scare themselves silly with utter bollocks - both sides seem to have many 'supporters' who do just that. Both of those groups need to stop it, stop making themselves miserable.

I am pissed off with it in real life too! So ineffably depressing!

The assumption that I am doing nothing but rolling my eyes whilst you try to save us!

The rolling the eyes comment wasn't addressed to you, Blanche, but to whoever it was up thread who said Leavers would be rolling their eyes at people marching.

and what was the cap?

How do you know what people do or don't do? With regard to Brexit, many of us who believe that this is a mistake have written to our MPs, gone on marches etc. Whether it has done any good or not is debatable, but I don't want to have to say I didn't try.

In my personal life I do quite a lot of voluntary work. I have time, I am retired. I think I do my bit to make life better for all. So don't make judgements.

Fair enough... the cap was "You are doing nothing but moaning"

We were at cross purposes all over the place

Peregrina don't wear it. If you are doing stuff then my moan isn't aimed at you... hence words like, some.... I was only judging those who do bugger all and choose to main loud and long!

Peregrina

I wanted to reply to your post on what you would like to see TM do to heal the rifts. I know you won't agree with my points but this just shows what a tricky situation we are in, division-wise (and I agree that it is a huge problem.)

I would like her to recognise that a number of Leave voters expected support for the NHS , and voted Leave on that basis - which for all her weasel words, she hasn't yet convinced anyone that she is supportive of

I don't think either TM or the Tories in general are supportive of the NHS. I fear for its future. However, I think the EU and the NHS are two separate issues. I am not convinced that many people voted leave because they thought it would mean more money for the NHS. I don't know what the polls showed, I think it was mentioned by some, but I think people were made to feel very uncomfortable about expressing their real opinions about many things (eg FOM) so the polls do not tell the whole story. So I would like to see the government fund the NHS properly too, but I don't see it as a Brexit issue.

I would want to see a much more robust condemnation of the hate crimes that we have seen since the Referendum - again we had a few empty words the other day, but no more

I have mixed feelings about this. I take the the "spike" in the police crime figures with a pinch of salt, particularly now we know that Amber Rudd's speech at the Tory conference was one of the "hate incidents". I do believe there has been an increase in racist insults and comments. However, there has also been an increase in other types of insults comments - against old people, less educated people, unemployed people etc, etc. I think if we are going to condemn insults and stereotyping, this needs to be across the board. You can't expect people to listen to being told not to insult others by people who are insulting them. Also, I think we all need to be clear that the increase in visible racism is coming from a minority. Every time someone says "all leave voters are racist" (I know you don't say this, but many do), this is telling racists that their views are acceptable to 37% of the electorate. I don't think anyone became more racist overnight on 23rd June. I think people thought it became more acceptable to be racist, partly because they were told, by many, that they were one of 17 plus million racists. We all are responsible for correcting this missaprehension (some more so than others).

Long enough post. Rest to follow.

However, I think the EU and the NHS are two separate issues. I am not convinced that many people voted leave because they thought it would mean more money for the NHS.

In reality, the NHS absolutely nothing to do with the EU, but by putting the £350 million on the side of the bus the Leave campaign made it one. No one knows who voted to Leave the EU on the strength of this, but some would have done, which may have been sufficient to swing the vote.

I am quite sure that there have been increased hate crimes, even if Amber Rudd's doesn't qualify. There are two different things here - a Pole was certainly kicked to death, racist graffiti was daubed on a Polish community centre. Why did these happen in June and not May? The Polish centre wasn't new. Why did non of this surface when the first influx of Poles came about 10 years ago.

Then there are Amber Rudd and Theresa May. As part of Government it is their duty to represent the interests of the country. I assume that few people think racial and xenophobic tensions are to be welcomed. Rudd's speech was insensitive at a time when passions were running high, and fanned the flames. She has been in politics long enough and should have been more aware of how her words were likely to be received. May can waffle all she likes about being open and tolerant, but so far, nothing I have seen her do has convinced me that she has done anything to tackle hate crime. If you can think of examples, please tell me.

In reality, the NHS absolutely nothing to do with the EU, but by putting the £350 million on the side of the bus the Leave campaign made it one. No one knows who voted to Leave the EU on the strength of this, but some would have done, which may have been sufficient to swing the vote.

Latest YouGov / The Times survey finds that 52% of the Leave voters surveyed thinks that Brexit will benefit the NHS, as opposed to 7% of the Remain voters.

YouGov / The Time survey here

Brexit or no Brexit, I think Leave voters are going to be disappointed about any benefit to the NHS whilst we have a Tory Government.

Leave voters are going to be disappoint about absolutely everything in the end, given that Brexit is the misselling scandal of the century.

Bobo does that mean I can look forward to years of unwanted telephone calls saying that I can claim for mis-sold Brexit?

Let's hope so... not sure I'm going to hold my breath though.

But 'fighting' the 'car crash' isn't going to help. It will only cement the resolve of every leaver to get a good hard brexit!

The 'march in March' won't gain anything, it will just make everyone roll their eyes at those 'remainiacs' who can't accept the result.

This is typical of the imbecilic comments that give Brexit voters a bad name.
Why so opposed to people protesting? What are you scared of? What the March in March will do, at the very least, is remind Theresa May that 65 million are not behind her. She can assert that as much as she wants, but it's simply not true. It may also encourage more MPs and members of the House of Lords to speak out when they know a large section of the public is behind them.

Oh, I have no problem with protest as a means to get a message across. But, when the message is that you want to overrule the votes of more than half the voting public that I get annoyed.

And seeing as Theresa May is the most popular PM since the 50s, I think the chances of a bunch of hysterical remainers changing her position are slim to none.

And seeing as Theresa May is the most popular PM since the 50s

What is this claim actually based on? More popular than Thatcher? More popular than pre-Iraq Blair? Just because May is doing well against a complete imbecile such as Corbyn does not mean that she is any way popular on her own terms.

Oh, I have no problem with protest as a means to get a message across. But, when the message is that you want to overrule the votes of more than half the voting public that I get annoyed.
Carry on being annoyed and I'll carrying on protesting what I see as utter stupidity and economic suicide.

All this talk of 'the will of the people' and 'overruling what the majority' voted for is becoming increasingly tedious and is actually factually incorrect.

The ballot paper was a binary choice, there were no details on how we would leave and there still isn't anything remotely concrete.

Even those who voted Leave did not all want the kind of Brexit we are heading for therefore the 'will of the people' is actually the opposite of the direction we are now going.

More people wanted to Remain or at least wanted to remain in the Single Market than wanted to leave completely.

The stuff about TM being the most popular PM is also nonsense. I suspect the source of that claim is the same as the one which thinks all 65m people in the U.K are behind her.

It's actually incredibly frightening how blinkered so many of the Leave contingent are; and it's getting worse not better.

"And seeing as Theresa May is the most popular PM since the 50s, I think the chances of a bunch of hysterical remainers changing her position are slim to none."

Then you would be wise to ignore us, and try to avoid getting so rattled.

Well, I have referred to some eye rolling and being annoyed. Not sure that makes me 'rattled' but ok. Its certainly not the children of the leavers who are coming into school crying because of the hysteria at home about a vote
I fact, it's the remainers who have recently come out with such gems as 'I am shivering and weeping' over the trump inauguration, and a poster who claimed brexit was worse than the death of both her parents and a husband.

Oh, I have no problem with protest as a means to get a message across. But, when the message is that you want to overrule the votes of more than half the voting public that I get annoyed.

Then get annoyed. Join Trump in behaving like a toddler. More than half the voting public i.e on the register of electors is not the same as slightly more than half who voted. The right to peaceful protest is part of our democracy - which is apparently so important to Leavers.

If there is a case for Brexit then make it. Seven months on, we are all still waiting to hear some decent arguments. So far we have heard how we are going to trade with a number of countries; inconveniently for us, they have decided comes with visa demands. So far we have heard how the Nissan factory was secure. Now we hear the CEO is reviewing the situation, so we are back to the uncertainty of last summer.

Theresa May popular? Tell us who says so. Personally I disliked both Thatcher and Blair probably in equal measure, but I can't pretend that in the early years of their Premierships they weren't hugely popular with certain sections of the population.

Children who are going into school crying are the offspring of EU citizens who don't know whether their family will be split up or not, or the whole family will have to leave for another country. Try explaining that away to an 8 or 9 year old.

My dad called TM Maggie today

Freudian slip

I am hoping its not too freudian [shcock]

We know the government knows there is no case for brexit. Hammond was revealing at Davos when he told his audience the 'blame' for brexit rested with TB for failing to agree transitional arrangements for the membership of the Baltic states. But Brexit is supposed to be a 'good thing' for the UK. The language of blame by a senior government minister is wholly inappropriate. Otherwise what was the option even doing on a referendum ballot paper in the first place?