The Brexit Arms. A friendly place for anyone wanting to chat about Brexit.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair and relax.....

"This removal of the right to vote if you are not deemed intelligent enough is a very real thing - and I fear when the regressive left eventually get back in power - they will protect themselves and remove the right to vote for some sections of society.
THIS "
Iirc after the referendum there was a thread on Mumsnet wishing that certain people didn't have a vote. Scary stuff.

Yes Dapple its a very strong theme.

The people who feel they are fighting for liberal freedoms in my mind seem to be the ones seeking to squash and remove said freedoms

This is so true and so depressing. I am finding the lack of thought people seem to be giving to the wider implications of trying to undermine or otherwise overturn democratically made decisions really disturbing.

And the lack of humility. I can't understand why people elected Trump, but I live in the UK. I imagine if I lived in the States I would understand. It's not for me to go marching about protesting about someone else's democratic choices, particularly when I know less about the situation in America than, you know, Americans.

Not quite as jolly in here as last night, is it?

Agree Wrong. Lack of empathy, critical thought? Understanding?

There is something missing though thats for sure.
No, not as jolly.....maybe its excitement fatigue - so much has been going on.

I'd really like to understand what is going on in some people's minds. I think there is a lack of empathy - mixed with total arrogance that their view is the one and only enlightened view of the world. So much close-minded thinking and complete failure to even attempt to put yourself in the other person's shoes or to even respect them as having the same humanity and basic human values as you.

This gem from the New Statesman has been burning a hole in my brain for weeks. I took out a trial subsciption to NS as I want to read some different, intelligent, thoughtful analysis of what is going on and I find this, from Helen Lewis. After detailing the intergenerational wealth divide, she says

The optimistic answer to all this is that parents and grandparents want the best for their families and will therefore be happy to make sacrifices for younger people. Unfortunately, the Brexit vote has put paid to that theory: the older generations did not give up their Leave tendencies just because their children wanted to remain

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2017/01/spare-bedrooms-tv-licences-its-time-politicians-stop-appeasing-elderly-voters

So it's beyond the wit of a NS writer to imagine that Leave voters might care exactly as much as Remain voters about their children and grandchildren, but see their future better out of the EU. Well apparently yes, it must just be that Leave voters don't care about their descendants. Ffs it's so facile, and bigoted and foul. How can people think like that? It's just insults dressed up as analysis, with no genuine thought it attempt to understand. Horrible.

I will not be renewing my subscription to NS. If I want to read vile insults to Leave voters I can do that on MN for free fnaa fnaa

For anyone driven to drink I have just checked and 90% proof gin and tonic is almost neutral PH and being colourless is non-staining.

Unfortunately single malt is not good even if my Grandpa did advocate it for everything from toothache to stomach ache - kill or cure. Mixed with lemon and honey tea to keep the cold bugs away as I do is probably the worst of all options.

Good job I'm an eternal optimist

wrong it's illuminating however that a recent you-gov poll has places 'immigration' bottom of the list of priorities for people aged 18 to 24. Their voices are simply not being heard. It's outrageous really.

18-24 year olds are the demographic more embracing of trans identity-as-gender too.

Why do older women have such a problem with the current trans issues?
Is it because they're all so bigoted, and stuck in the past?
Or is it because (through age & experience) they have a broader, deeper worldview as well as remembering and having actually experienced a life pre-gender-as-feels?

Why are the feminists boards filled with bigoted old women who are denying the wants & needs of the enlightened youth?
Gender is a feeling!

My above post was in answer to this comment about the 18-24 demographic:

Their voices are simply not being heard. It's outrageous really.

Also, as an 18-24 yr old, I didn't give a hoot about the NHS either.

Yet it is has become something I very much class as a priority now I'm older, with kids, and with medical issues.

Figment Are you referring to this poll?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/21/immigration-lowest-priority-young-people-brexit-poll

It's not YouGov, it's Opinium commissioned by Brexit Watch.

The poll also found

Reducing immigration scored far higher among the over-55 age group (7.63) though even among these voters it was still not seen as so important as 12 other issues Ummm

Sorted out my soon to be 16 year old's voter registration a couple of months ago and sitting watching NC on Andrew Marr making my teeth itch with her now. Sat through her new President's inauguration with her on Friday. Had a reasoned debate with her and her Grannie on Indyref2, Brexit and the usual domestic stuff. Unlike most 18-24 year olds I am confident she will engage with the democratic process and go out and vote.

Big JMD now has my full attention.

All hail our leader.
( on Andrew Marr now )

I wonder why labour have never had a female PM? Are lefty women too emotional?

I myself have grown much wiser as I have aged . I cringe to remember some of my younger views (and the total conviction with which I held them).

Settling down and having children has changed many of my views and priorities.

When I discuss politics with my teenagers we discuss as equals. I have the benefit of more years of experience, exposure to different ideas and the wisdom of age . also I read the newspapers and keep up to date with current affairs They have their views as intelligent young people growing up in a different world to the one I grew up in. We exchange views and argue, but I find the notion that I should ignore my own political beliefs and just accept what my teenagers say as right quite bizarre really.

Have to say Surfer TM did a very good job at demonstrating why she is in charge with huge approval ratings atm.

Watching a wine trader on Sunday Politics Sunday in Scotland. Is it just me that is quite happy to swap Chillean Red and Californian Zinfandel for European wines. Also trying to get my head round how you discuss alcohol pricing and tariffs without considering the impact of alcohol duty.
even if it is a bit early.

Good job I had fellow eternal optimist and Brexit cheerleader JRM on Any Answers yesterday to cheer me up.

howabout I am interested in something you said earlier on about the Weimar Republic. My ds is also studying that period of Germany. Not sure what you mean - are you referring to Hitler being able to start ruling as Chancellor after the 1933 enabling act, and being able to overrule the president of the Weimar republic?

I agree with you that history should be compulsory.

Hope it's OK to pop on your thread!

"I wonder why labour have never had a female PM? Are lefty women too emotional?"

They have.

A female Prime Minister ? Who?

I think its a really interesting question why Labour has never had a female leader and the Tories have had two.

When did they have a female PM?!

I'm starting to think that the only way they will have a female leader of the party (properly, not just women being 'allowed to babysit' whilst The Men are busy), is if a sitting leader declares themselves as a transwoman.

As a party I find Labour quietly anti Semitic and women only really acceptable when they are following and worshipful, as 'Blairs Babes' , women are second class still in the Labour hierarchy.