The Brexit Arms. A friendly place for anyone wanting to chat about Brexit.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair and relax.....

DonotbringLulu without going into a thesis broadly yes. Moore was talking not only about delegitimising Trump based on the popular vote but also harking back to GWB and the hanging chads.

Imo this is a direct attack on the democratic checks and balances in the US system which hold the balance between State and Federal power. To do it in the context of an election where the Republicans won the Senate and the House as well as the Presidency is worse. The Republicans also now control a record 2/3 of State legislatures. That does not look like an electorate crying out for the Democrats.

The Democrats would be better served by looking at why they are losing ground all over the place rather than undermining the system. Ironically they are also railing against Trump for repealing Obama's Executive orders. I am pretty much neutral on Trump, especially since most Republicans I know don't like him because they think he is a Democrat, but if it does go bad it will in my view be partly because Obama and the Democrats sought to continue to railroad policies in the face of growing opposition rather than building consensus.

Infinite I don't agree with that characterisation of the Labour Party but that is perhaps because Scottish Labour is on its 3rd Female leader - Wendy Alexander, Johann Lamont and Kezia Dugdale. However I do think identity politics is part of the problem for the Left in general. The "women's march" on Saturday typifies this. The Left tends to lump all women in with oppressed minorities. I am a woman but I am neither oppressed nor a minority.

So Scotland has a female leader of Labour, Conservative & SNP.
That's brilliant!
I have to admit I didn't realise that Scottish Labour had a female leader too.

Labour have never had a female Prime Minister because they've never had anyone good enough.

Actually Semi a lot of people think one of the reasons Scottish Labour did so badly in the GE and in the Scottish elections was because they undermined Johann Lamont by parachuting in Jim Murphy from Westminster to bolster the No campaign.

These women's marches are so cringe aren't they. Privileged, middle class women desperate to define themselves as victims. What are they a victim of?
The real victims iin the U.S voted for change. But who cares about them?
These middle class feminists are just lashing out at the white man ( easy target ) not one of them marched in protest about Asian men raping young girls up North.
Do they really think DT is going to make abortions illegal in the UK?

Yes cringe is my reaction. Whilst I admire the fight to maintain and protect women's rights in this country those same women in the main marching against Trump have ignored Rotherham ignored the migrant crisis that led to Cologne are passive observers to the introduction if Sharia law in our country

Have to admire the Trump media team. He could be sitting down to a bunch of pundits looking at the issues those on the Women's March are concerned about. Instead he has encouraged the commentariat to focus on exactly how many hundreds of thousands stood out in the rain to welcome the inauguration of the new Republican President in 96% Democratic voting DC and exactly how many millions watched on TV.

Janice Turner's comment column in The Times on Saturday was interesting (behind the paywall). We agree on the dangers of identity politics and the need to focus on issues. She draws comparisons with 80s Britain but implies a victory when progressives lost the economic argument but won on social values. I believe that social freedom comes from economic freedom. I think this is at the heart of Brexit and Trump but "progressive liberals" are blind to it.

Sorry about my grammar Mumsnet ting on the hoof in secret whilst away with dh

I believe that social freedom comes from economic freedom. I think this is at the heart of Brexit and Trump but "progressive liberals" are blind to it

Are you saying that identity politics are all a bit irrelevant if people can't get decent jobs or afford to buy a house?

At the risk of sounding like an interrogating remainer why do you think the progressive liberals are blind to it and what can be done about it, if anything?

I hope that didn't sound a bit abrupt - I think there is a lot in what you are saying how. I will look up the Times article.

steady there wrong steady - you will be asking her to sit in the chair next

No offence taken wrong been disturbed every time I've sat down today so maybe 5 minutes in the chair wouldn't go amiss but will have to take a rain check

so sorry surfer you seem unaware of the women who did protest in Rotherham but were dismissed/disrespected by male Police and Councillors.

Shame too that about the same time there was no publicity given to 23 men in Liverpool who were doing exactly the same abuse. However, 21 one them were white and had respectable jobs - so that's all right then.

The reference was to all those leaping on the bandwagon now and NOT supporting those abused girls and women or the women who did support them

Vote today.

I wonder how it will go?

And what difference will it make. Can MPs block Brexit and would they want to. In the real world everyone I speak to accepts Brexit but the media and mumsnet seem to think it's stoppable

It won't make any difference.
Just an expensive waste of time.

Nigel farage and leavers must be delighted today.
UK Parliamentary sovereignty - which they want back!! - in action!!
I am sure they will accept this ruling and stop moaning
😳🙄😂

I'm very pleased with this result. This is parliamentary sovereignty, the government should have done the correct thing in the first place.

It's not going to change anything - no MP is going to vote against Brexit.
So, as I said, an expensive waste of time.

Significant in providing a clearer understanding of the relationship between Westminster and the devolved administration. Significant in providing a much clearer understanding of the Executive's prerogative power in relation to International Treaties and subsequent enabling legislation - this will likely be very relevant when the UK comes to signing lots of bilateral trade deals. Significant in demonstrating the need for much clearer drafting of legislation in relation to referendums and their subsequent effects.

In terms of Brexit winning a Parliamentary vote on Art 50 will strengthen the Government's position. Not seen the full judgement yet but it looks like a narrow interpretation and somewhat dependent on the irrevocability of triggering Art 50 which makes further dissent after Art 50 vote more difficult. The existence of a dissenting judgement also limits the scope for further challenges somewhat. Interesting that Lord Reed, one of the dissenting 3 is a Scottish lawyer, as at first glance the dissenting view is more in line with my personal stab at a judgement coming from my Scottish legal background.

Surfer not a waste of time at all. Thousands of long in the tooth lawyers and ex-lawyers like me have now done enough Constitutional law CPE to get us right back up to speed. The Constitution is a fail safe conversation starter all over Scotland and now rUK can join in as well

I'm a Leaver finding myself likingTeresa Mays hard Brexit which she outlined. However, I can quite understand why we are where we are now, and do think it's the correct decision. Although I'm finding the process long and frustrating.