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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 23:02

Hester As long as Labour remain a complete car crash of an opposition, May only has to worry about keeping her own party on side, especially the rejuvenated rightwing.
They will be happy with hard Brexit and a low wage tax haven UK.
She can justify reducing too tax rates "to compete with the world" for new business.

TM can easily throw the ideologues some red meat: more grammar schools, more nhs privatisation, more cuts to benefits - cue more demonisation of "scroungers"
Because who could stop her ? Not Labour.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 23:03

reducing top tax rates < spanks iPad soundly >

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 23:12

Oh, I remember Carl Bernstein when he and Woodward were hammering Nixon, month after month. He did a brilliant job then exposing a crooked President, very brave and very important work.
He was also pretty good about fact-checking his articles and getting multiple sources.
I'm so glad he's still alive working (first thought of us old gimmers)

HesterThrale · 10/01/2017 23:27

Yes Bigchoc I'm sure you're right. I do wonder, though, if she has dark, quiet, lonely moments in the middle of the night when she wonders if she can make stability come out of this.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 23:33

Well, I've learned something from Der Spiegel that I may have missed May telling us ( ?)

"The real work on Brexit is taking place not at David Davis' ministry, but at 10 Downing Street.
That's where May has convened a cabinet committee that is drafting guidelines for Brexit and making decisions.
The committee is the nucleus of the government's work.

It meets behind closed doors and has 12 members, comprised of an equal number of Brexit supporters and opponents.
But it appears it is even dawning on this committee just how massive is the task at hand. The Times of London quoted one member of the committee as saying:
'Everyone chips in, the PM sums up and everyone staggers out saying how difficult it is.' " Sad

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/britain-still-lacks-brexit-roadmap-a-1129194.html
(page 2 of article)

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 23:38

This is the original article that CNN refer to in their article about Trump. Also from Oct.

m.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump

David Frum @davidfrum^
CIA message to Trump: you mess with us, get ready for a leakstorm of Biblical proportions

If you REALLY want to go down the Trump Rabbit Warren, then follow @Khanoisseur (if you can stomach it).

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 23:57

Very depressing - what Polish community leaders told the Commons home affairs committee:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/10/poles-in-uk-fear-spike-in-hate-crimes-when-brexit-process-begins

"Not all police forces were ready to respond to those who wanted to report hate crime. “They are sometimes waved away as employment issues about discrimination. Others are told that if they do not speak fluent English they are partially to blame for what happened,”

"In a secondary school in west London, teachers had seen a Polish boy being beaten and had failed to respond. When his mother had complained to the school she was told that if he had been black it would have been treated as a racist incident."

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 00:06

www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.pak2L3kXK#.efeb3p4KE
These Reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties ToRussia
A dossier, compiled by a person who has claimed to be a former British intelligence official, alleges Russia has compromising information on Trump. The allegations are unverified, and the report contains errors.

(It contains amongst many other things a paragraph about what Trump got up to in a hotel room in Moscow. Apparently. Now this is really taking the piss. Literally. Twitter appears to have gone a little crazy as a result).

Chris Hewitt ‏*@ChrisHewitt*
Trump didn't mention any of this stuff in his review of the Ritz Carlton Moscow on TripAdvisor. So now I don't know what to believe.

This also important though.
Devlin Barrett ‏*@DevlinBarrett*
Word of caution: Document(s) behind the Trump/Russia thing been circulating for a while. Yet to find anyone to substantiate allegations

I guess the real story is who is now reporting it. Its gone mainstream.

Personally I think it too little too late.

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Kaija · 11/01/2017 00:11

Christ.

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 00:13

According to Louise Mensch, GCHQ have tapes of Russia calling to Trump as "Our little пИздюк". Best reply = "Rude. Only his hands are tiny. His ass and gut are YUGE!"

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 00:17

Worse scenario is that Trump has been used by others to gain power and he's the least of the problems/was never going to be let near real power/would be dispensed with now no longer needed. Much like Corbyn. So, this isn't a big damaging reveal; it's part of a longer story?

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 00:18

Obama's farewell speech tonight. I think it might get a bit overshadowed now.

Trump has a press conference tomorrow. Well, he was scheduled for one at least.

His angry tweetstorm should be entertaining I suppose.

In the past it seemed like a sex scandal was the thing that stopped you becoming leader of your country. Now they seem like the done thing.

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BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2017 00:38

Shades of the Manchurian candidate ...
So Trump may be Russia's Agent Orange

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2017 00:46

The KGB used to set "honey traps" for foreign diplomats, politicians, businessmen. Probably its successor still does. Crime bosses certainly would.

After his bluffing / boasting about grabbing pussy and his fans supporting him, Trump probably wouldn't care much even if the Russians filmed him in action
Provided that action wasn't a 13-year-old.

mathanxiety · 11/01/2017 02:41

All intelligence services set honey traps, BigChoc.

I wouldn't get too carried away with spy plots.
I suspect the more that is printed and broadcast about Trump and Russia the less credible it will get. The fact that some sensational Trump /Russia story goes mainstream only hurts mainstream media in the long run at this point.

mathanxiety · 11/01/2017 03:24

So not too little too late but too much, all at the same time, and credible stuff mixed in with incredible.

mathanxiety · 11/01/2017 03:52

www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tk-whitaker-1916-2017-life-of-the-irishman-of-the-20th-century-35358785.html

This recent sad news is going to throw Ireland's membership of the EU into high relief. The former Secretary of the Department of Finance (the first of many major roles in Irish administration) is considered a national hero.

T.K. Whitaker was born in Rostrevor, co. Down (in NI) and as Secretary of the Department of Finance in the 1950s laid the groundwork for Ireland's economic future. He was a leading campaigner for Ireland's membership of the EEC as it was then. He authored 'Northern Ireland - A Possible Solution' in 1971, which became the basis of the GFA.

mathanxiety · 11/01/2017 06:09

Apologies if this has been posted before - Irish Times on Arlene Foster and the DUP as NI inches into what could be a very significant election.

Talks about what the DUP really is, and what is at stake for Foster and her party.

'DUP punishment from unionist voters – defecting to the UUP or TUV – along with the reduction in Assembly size from 108 to 90, might see the DUP struggles to return the 30 MLAs needed to give the party its crucial veto – the ability to table Petitions of Concern requiring cross-community consent for legislation. Failure to achieve this tally could also be a career-ender...'

'Foster joined the DUP when it was a party denouncing powersharing with Sinn Féin. Foster was not alone in transferring. One-quarter of the DUP used to belong to the UUP, deserting after the 1998 Belfast Agreement

Like the party they defected to, this group never supported the Belfast Agreement, and struggled to fully accept some of its core ideas of mandatory powersharing...'

I think in NI as a whole this will be a poll of opinion on Brexit a few months on, in the context of worrying confusion and muddled thinking in Westminster wrt the EU relationship, and maybe more importantly in the context of full and perhaps sinking realisation on the part of NI voters that NI is nothing more than a flickering shadow on the far distant horizon for Westminster and the British public as a whole. Of course for many in the DUP it will once again present an opportunity to affirm the core beliefs of Unionism. But it is possible that the intervening months since the Referendum will have given many pause.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/foster-cannot-move-agenda-forward-without-help-of-opponents-1.2932228

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 08:11

Thanks lala and gloria, I love 'Cal' will check your choices.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2017 08:22

Rep Senator McCain passed Russia-Trump report to FBI:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

These allegations need to be properly investigated and either proved false or confirmed.
Far less serious allegations have been officially investigated about previous presidents, e.g. the looong Ken Starr enquiry into Bill & Hillary Clinton, the Iran-Contras under Reagan.
Also, those enquiries were pushed entirely from the other party, whereas these concerns are bipartisan.

It may just be members of his team involved in murky business, so - like Nixon and his "plumbers" - it could be that Trump as President gets into trouble for obstructing investigations rather than directly having committed the original misdeeds himself.

At the very least, Trump seems very partisan & irresponsible:
"Trump has consistently cast doubt on Russian culpability for hacking the Democratic National Committee, defying a consensus of 17 national intelligence agencies."
Certainly, 17 agencies could all be wrong, but a President-Elect shouldn't just ignore them.

"members of Trump’s team ..... had knowledge of the DNC hacking operation, and in return had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraineas a campaign issue and to raise US/Nato defence commitments in the Baltics and Eastern Europe to deflect attention away from Ukraine”.

There's a consistent approach from all Russia's supporters wrt deflecting & excusing Putin's bloody wars.

Trump declined some real estate sweeteners, but the "the report alleges: FSB has compromised Trump through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him.”

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 08:23

Agree with you on NI election being a Brexit poll math and thanks for the stuff on Whitaker. Trump Russia Shock sort of. Feels like nineteenth century Europe with ropey powerful monarchs and angry us.

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 08:29

Red ,wish you hadn't recommended this Trump Rabbit Warren!
Adam Khan ‏*@Khanoisseur* 6m
Putin's buddy Lev Leviev sold the Times Square building to Jared Kushner at a $230 million LOSS a few months ago.
Now why would he do that?

GloriaGaynor · 11/01/2017 10:46

Here's a direct link to the Trump documents:

www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

So very fake. But amusing.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 10:49

Math I agree with you about all of it coming out now and credibility.

The CNN report sounded much more solid and it was personally backed by a journalist of outstanding reputation. Because it didn't contain the unsubstantiated bits.

The Buzzfeed report has nothing proven in it, and has the salacious sex scandal which will over shadow the deeper stuff.

There were a couple of people pointing out last night that Trump only has to strongly deny the later and ignore the former now.

Although would anyone be interested in the 'boring' financial stuff? Weegate has captured attention in a way serious stuff probably never would.

The following has to be pointed out too though.

Jeff Sessions was questioned yesterday about whether he would uphold the freedom of the press amid concerns that he would limit it. He has expressed in the past concerns about 'national security'. Yesterday he responded that he had not fully researched the subject, which is a bit of a stretch due to his previous position and how he has voted in the past, and points more to an easy way to avoid the question, plus he said he could not guarantee that he would not jail journalists for leaks.

Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar: "You've raised concerns in the past about protecting journalists from revealing their sources, and you did not support the Free Flow of Information Act. In 2015, the Attorney General revised Justice Department rules for when federal prosecutors can subpoena journalists for their records, and he also committed to releasing an annual report on any subpoenas issues, or charges made against journalists, and committed to not put reporters in jail for doing their job.

If confirmed would you commit to following the standards already in place at the Justice Department, and will you make that commitment to not to put reporters in jail for doing their jobs?"

Sessions: "I'm not sure. I have not studied those regulations."

"You could have a situation where the media is really not the unbiased media we see today," he said, "and they could be a mechanism through which unlawful intelligence is obtained. There are other dangers that could happen with regard to the federal government, that often doesn't happen to media covering cases in the states."

Trump was shown the report Buzzfeed published previously. His team would therefore be well aware that it was likely to break at some point regardless of whether it is true or not. Trump himself has long been for widening and expanding liable laws to the point they are draconian. The Buzzfeed leak actually adds real credibility to Sessions, even though its purpose was to do exactly the oppose to Trump's Presidency and his Cabinet choices.

There is a much wider story here too.

Firstly the press were threatened and Sessions is prepping the public for the concept that the media will act in a particular way and will 'have to be dealt with' without explicitly saying it. Perhaps odd when you have Brietbart and Alt-Right the Neo Nazis going on about libertarian values of the 1st Amendment and have little regard for whether what they say is true or not because 'trolling is legitimate'. (Of course there is nothing odd about it really. Its just an excuse to silence liberals and pursue an agenda against anyone not straight, male and white). Going with a leak story on the same day is really a declaration of war and statement of intent.(indeed Buzzfeed said as much in the accompanying article to the Trump File).

Secondly the Buzzfeed article is not so much about the content of the document but about its existence and the fact it was passed to the FBI and is in their possession. The Big Questions: Did they follow it up? Did they feel it needed to be followed up?

The FBI decided that the Clinton emails needed to be followed up, even though there wasn't a lot to it. Just to make sure there was not a real national security issue...

When the Foreign Intelligence Service applied for a warrant to investigate four of Trump's associates as they appeared to have irregular contact with Russian Officials it was initially turned down (a later request in October was granted but outcome unknown).

Implied suggestion from the press which has already been stated in the past: Did Head of the FBI, Comey act properly? Are the FBI acting in a biased fashion? (Jeff Sessions does not seem to have ruled out going after Clinton too).

Then there is the fact the CIA are worried. Trump has already gone on something of an attack on it. Their only recourse is to leak. They NEED the media to work for them.

It feels like we are at desperation point, in a last ditch attempt to bring down Trump.

And here comes the British connection. The source of the report seems to be from an ex-MI6 guy who is regarded apparently as 'credible'. He now has his own private investigation business which produced this. Now it might be easier to dismiss this, if he was not ex-M16. To criticise him directly risks criticising M16 even though he is no longer with them. That's where it gets a bit sticky. How does Trump do that, without it having the potential to damage the special relationship he has gone on about? Rumours are floating that current security services in Europe have stuff too that they are taking seriously. Are parts of the network this ex-agent built up, still part of the current security service network?

Then there's May's apparent position on tax schemes designed to help the wealthy and wanting to go after people and accountants who do this. How on earth does this fit with Donald Trump, especially given his Scottish Golf Courses. (Loss making of course) and May desperate for a Brexit deal with Trump? Of course, May's plan to crack down on tax relies on international cooperation and support (ironically which the EU are committed to). And there's all the stuff about the UK becoming a 'tax haven' post Brexit.

There are so many potential conflicts of interests and agendas here. There is a potential national security collision course and a potential taxation one. Which will May choose? Her personal agenda seems to fit with the EU over the US, yet she rejects the EU and her economic desperation may push us towards the US at a time we should be running like hell from it. Just how IS the UK government cosying up to the US? Trump is deeply unpopular in the UK. How he acts, his public imagine and the government responds to him is therefore important. Shouldn't we be asking some big questions too? What DOES the UK have on all this? Brexit makes us extremely vulnerable.

Question: What then happens to our freedom of speech in the UK if we choose Trump? Will our press be free to publish anti-Trump sentiments or stories without fear? Will our law stand up to challenges from Trump towards journalists? How will British citizens who pass comment on Trump on twitter be treated?

The Sessions Confirmation and the Trump File are hugely important to us here in the UK and we shouldn't underestimate it. It does not matter whether the Trump File is true or not ultimately. There is fallout from it politically, either way.

Final thought: Obama's farewell speech which is pretty much about the pillars of democracy and how they are under threat. Obama made so many points I've been trying to make for months. Things that our politicians and papers seem to have forgotten. I don't know whether Obama saying it gives me hope or I see it as the last great speech on democracy as the sun goes down on it. If it happens in the US, the chances are it will be mirrored here unless we are very careful.

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