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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Bobochic · 17/01/2017 14:55

It's a human rights scandal.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 17/01/2017 14:56

lovely they wee better had wealthy parents who won't live long enough for their assets to be eaten up by care home costs. -half kiddin--

Well I, for one, have now no pension at all, seeing that I am pretty convinced I've just being screwed over by the British governemnet.
I have no pension in my home country.
And I can't work full time due to ill health to try and make up whatever I can before pension age.
So yes, my only way out te pension is my inheritance.
Crap isn't it?

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 14:56

Leave v Remain priorities for negotiations.

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.
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TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 17/01/2017 14:58

The rule about freezing the all of the pension has been there for a while.
Kicking eu citizens and willing them they can't live the uk is new.
The combination of the two is very bad.

But it doesn't matter. No one in the uk will hear about the poor guy from Belgium (insert whatever the eu country the person is coming from) who is struggling with nothing or has to work until his death in 25 years time anyway.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 15:02

Thanks red, thanks everyone.
What about, Brown and Smith before, harnessed city support for Labour plans, are there any business polls on remain and leave?
Like Tesco predictions on food prices, oil prices with £/$ parity, effects of collapsing care service, impact on farming with subsidy withdrawal, banking flight?
Feel like the sheep in Animal Farm.
Clutching at straws a bit, here.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 15:03

then maybe we might be allowed to join the EU army haha. Especially once Trump has destroyed NATO.

I will laugh long and hard at this.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:10

Davis has also confirmed;

NO WHITE PAPER.

Labour and Liberal Conservatives will not be happy at this. Its a rejection of their request. The Brexit Committee recommended the publication of one by mid Feb.

Trouble will brew because of this.

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MadameDePomPom · 17/01/2017 15:10

'David Davis has just said in the commons that if parliament rejects the final deal and votes against it, we are leaving anyway.'

Wasn't he the man who used to go on and on about parliamentary sovereignty? Quite the turnabout! Pathetic weasel.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 15:10

Crap isn't it? Flowers It's a travesty. So many in similar boats, it's gendered, class and racial inequity and therefore in breach of god knows how many ECHR rulings, which won't apply when they get rid of 'red tape'.
"4 legs good, 2 legs bad baaaaaa"

Peregrina don't know why the Remain slogan wasn't "It's security, stupid....." (a la Clinton), the main thing that should concern leavers is security with a completely depleted military. What are we going to defend ourselves with? Racism?

Terrifying.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 15:13

NO WHITE PAPER.
Can the Supreme Court rule on this?

Bobochic · 17/01/2017 15:13

How on earth can there be a parliamentary vote on the terms of Brexit that will be ignored? WTF?

MadameDePomPom · 17/01/2017 15:14

No white paper? So they can make it up as they go along and can't be held to account? WTF?!

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 15:17

Labour and Liberal Conservatives will not be happy at this. Its a rejection of their request. The Brexit Committee recommended the publication of one by mid Feb.

Trouble will brew because of this. Will it?

They have been pretty supine at the moment. Labour because they are running scared of UKIP picking up votes - when they ought to be getting out there and telling people what Labour does for working people. The Tories because they are more interested in sucking up to May with the hope of Parliamentary advancement.

Bobochic · 17/01/2017 15:17

The whole thing is so outrageous that sometimes I wonder whether T May is having us all on and pushing for a Remain revolution. What kind of basket case post-Brexit scenario will finally push the Brexiters to see sense?

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:18

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2830761-Westministers-Boris-and-May-give-us-the-Brexit-Leeming-Plan?watched=1
New Thread For Lemmings. (complete with wonderful spelling mistake in title!)

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Lico · 17/01/2017 15:19

Pensions?
Will she be allowed to dock people's pension and prevent them from leaving the UK? Surely this is theft.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:20

What kind of basket case post-Brexit scenario will finally push the Brexiters to see sense?

Errrrr not any I can think of. Its a belief. Therefore can not be stopped.

It has a life of its own.

I thought the NHS might have been it. I was wrong.

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woman12345 · 17/01/2017 15:20

The violence that occurred during the campaign has had an impact on the unconstitutional nature of this proposal.
I don't know how to put this delicately and opposition to brexit is loathe to bring it up, but the febrile and threatening nature of debate then and now, is the elephant in the room, with which the con kip and its press andsupporters are pushing this through illegal procedure.

MsHooliesCardigan · 17/01/2017 15:20

I have followed these threads since day one although don't contribute much because I don't feel clever enough but I wanted to say thanks to you all (and especially Red) for your very articulate, intelligent and educated posts. There are so many fascinating links on here.
I am utterly despairing right now and I'm usually an incorrigible optimist. I have 3 DCs and I genuinely worry about their future and keep feeling guilty for having them if this is the mess they're going to inherit. This coming 3 days before the inauguration of the orange buffoon is making me want to down a bottle of gin. That picture of Gove gurning and doing a stupid 'thumbs up' like some star struck adolescent girl getting to meet their favourite boy band just sums up the utter shitness of everything.

squoosh · 17/01/2017 15:24

I hope Theresa and her cronies remember how much flack the SNP got for their Independence White Paper being too vague. At least they had a bloody White Paper!

HashiAsLarry · 17/01/2017 15:26

Didn't want to start the new thread invoking Godwin's Law but I'm beginning to see why there's never an answer to why the German people seemingly did nothing to stop the rise of the Nazis. I'm guessing they were all sat around, wondering in bewilderment as to how the hell the country was doing this and shocked by the speed. At least that's how I feel now about the UK and this very right wing turn Sad

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 15:26

I doubt if Theresa May remembers anything. She taunted Gordon Brown for being unelected and not going to the Country. She has done the same, but kept conveniently quiet about it. All she needed to say was that the fixed term Parliament Act took this action out of her hands.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 15:38

"stupid 'thumbs up' like some star struck adolescent girl getting to meet their favourite boy band just sums up the utter shitness of everything."

Cringe, cringe.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 15:38

I'm beginning to see why there's never an answer to why the German people seemingly did nothing to stop the rise of the Nazis.

I feel the same - they didn't realise what was happening until it was too late. I also think when people say education is the key, don't be too sure. The Germans were some of the best educated in Europe and declined into barbarism.

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