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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 15:48

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*
"Leaving EU won’t free up the £350m a week that Boris Johnson claimed but savings in EU contributions could help close the gap" says Corbyn

Jesus wept. I give up.

He's totally lost it. He's hopped on the Brexit Bus almost literally.

How does he answer the suggestion that the cost of Brexit could easily be more than £350m a week?

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lalalonglegs · 10/01/2017 15:58

I know, he's gone from saying/doing nothing to saying regurgitated Tory garbage Sad. It's almost as if he's some Tory stooge, put there to turn Labour voters away from the party. He's just a useless, intellectually vapid, complacent, confused, dreary, self-righteous, egotistical, drivel-spewing Conservative patsy. It's such a thunderously stupid thing to claim.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 15:59

Robert Peston ‏*@Peston*
Corbyn: "Labour is not wedded to freedom of movement...but I don’t want that to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it out" What's this mean?

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
I can't even begin to describe what an utter shambles Corbyn's Labour party is.

Sad thing is I think - in so far as I can work it out - that they're proposing the right policy on free movement and the single market.

You can hear trace of Starmer position on economics red line. And that's mixed with some whacky Milne 'SM doesn't exist' preposterousness.

...I think?

In pre-A50 period, UK politics is battle of red lines & that's the right red line to take. If he has taken it. Which he may or may not have.

Law and policy ‏*@Law*andpolicy
No, no clue what Corbyn means on freedom of movement.

So Robert Peston, Ian Dunt and David Allen Green all are completely clueless as to what Corbyn's just said in a speech.

That went well then.

Will he, like May, say tomorrow that he's been misrepresented by the media?

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MitzyLeFrouf · 10/01/2017 16:04

'useless, intellectually vapid, complacent, confused, dreary, self-righteous, egotistical, drivel-spewing Conservative patsy.'

That about sums it up. What the hell is he doing?

Figmentofmyimagination · 10/01/2017 16:10

It is quite interesting to think that Corbyn was never meant to be leader of the Labour Party. It was fate that he ended up on the ballot paper - rushing for the final signatures in the final few minutes. And it just happened to be him, and not one of the others on the left because it was 'his turn' to step forward as the token left wing candidate, expecting to come last in the first ballot but having aired his principles.

Similarly, Brexit was 'only supposed to blow the bloody doors off'.

So in two momentous respects, hugely influential paths have been taken as a result of an entirely unplanned series of events.

In both cases, people are struggling, after-the-event, to try to make sense of all of this, but none of it can succeed, except with a huge dose of luck (or bad luck providing an excuse for failure) because none of it was supposed to happen, except by a small band of people with views that will never hope to achieve a consensus. Oh dear.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 16:20

How Trump will get rid of the American Civil Service - then stuff it with people who support him.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/10/trump-could-slash-civil-service-pay-to-1-armageddon-rule?CMP=twt_gu

This is what you would call a 'purge' by a dictator. Except of course Trump is a supporter of democratic principles...

Jeff Sessions who is his candidate for Attorney General - therefore the person who upholds citizens rights including the right to vote, is being grilled by a committee today. If they pass him he goes to the Senate to be approved. He once stood to be judge but was withdrew due to allegations of racism. At the hearing today, 7 people have been removed for protesting and disrupting the sitting. Several of them were in KKK fake costumes. He supports extending Cross Check (the dodgy way to strike off black and Hispanic voters from electoral roles) amongst other things.

If he gets approved, democracy really is dead in the US.

I am VERY worried.

The ethics committee have however asked for more time about Betty DeVos, the lobbyist for privatising education or diverting funds to religious school tokens. She has given money to lots of Republicans and this is why they want more time. She's up for the job of, you've guessed it - education - in Trump's Cabinet.

I just have a feeling if the ethics committee reject anyone it'll just be her...

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tiggytape · 10/01/2017 16:43

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Cailleach1 · 10/01/2017 19:04

Wrt the DUP supporting the Conservative (and Unionist) government, it throws up the issue of the Conservative government having a conflict of interests and does certainly raise the issue of their capability of being an neutral honest broker in all this.

Don't forget the British Government quite happily oversaw a discriminatory and sectarian statelet for decades. I think the EU may be seen as a more honest and neutral body. Grants/funding go to the areas of need and they have contributed the money for cross border and cross community projects.

However, the Nationalist demographics are recovering and it may not be quite so simple in the future. Bloody hell, it is time for a normal secular not sectarian society. All it took to try to see a way forward and in this referendum NI wasn't even a pause for thought.

The Alliance party really stand apart.

woman12345 · 10/01/2017 19:21

Ashamed to say I knew nothing of the Alliance party, how fantastic to have a non sectarian political party, could we have one?
What are their chances in election Cailleach1 and they pro EU?

Kaija · 10/01/2017 19:51

Ian Dunt on Corbyn's Brexit contortions:

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/01/10/we-may-never-find-out-what-corbyn-s-position-on-brexit-is

(On a personal level this makes me feel better about his MN webchat when he responded to my single market membership question with a single market access answer, and I was kicking myself for not phrasing the question in a more watertight way. But it looks like nobody's had much luck with this one.)

Arborea · 10/01/2017 20:22

Alliance party are traditionally seen as a bit middle class: theulsterfry.com/featured/even-more-ladybird-books-that-should-be-made-for-northern-ireland/

They are pro EU, and led by a woman (huzzah)

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 20:23

May and Corbyn are themselves desperately trying to find out what their Brexit policy is !
I doubt that Corbyn ever will.
TM may eventually end up with the excuse "policy" that this is all the fault of the EU - she can probably convince sufficient voters of this to get the Tories reelected, which is of course her overwhelming aim.

Kaija · 10/01/2017 20:27

"TM may eventually end up with the excuse "policy" that this is all the fault of the EU"

Yes that definitely looks like the plan at the moment.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2017 20:29

iirc, in the early years of the Alliance party it seemed basically liberal unionists (who rejected the Orange Order etc) who split off from the original official unionist party (before it splintered into umpteen offshoots) plus a much smaller number of Catholics.
I was wondering how it has changed in the years since the Good Friday Agreement took root.

woman12345 · 10/01/2017 21:14

Arborea Grin Grin brilliant, thanks!

woman12345 · 10/01/2017 21:19

Sorry to derail thread, but I know southern Irish writing quite well, but are there any contemporary writers from the north that any of you recommend?

lalalonglegs · 10/01/2017 21:40

I've read a couple of Glenn Patterson novels and enjoyed them - Number 5 which was vignettes of different families living at different periods at one particular house in Belfast was really enjoyable and touched upon the way the city was changing. You're right though, not many others spring to mind (although I have the nagging feeling I'm missing someone important).

GloriaGaynor · 10/01/2017 22:20

Gerry Seymour, Bernard Maclaverty.

HesterThrale · 10/01/2017 22:29

Bigchoc, do you think TM fully realises the shit-state we're in and will be in for probably decades after Brexit; the impossibility of getting anything good out if this; and how unpopular the Govt will be; and STILL wants to get re-elected? Seems masochistic to me... A lose-lose situation whatever she does.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 22:32

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-10/u-k-considers-promising-eu-citizens-they-can-stay-after-brexit

U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May’s government is considering a unilateral pledge to allow three million European citizens residing in the country to remain after Brexit, even before British expatriates obtain the same assurance about their future.

Brexit Minister David Jones told lawmakers in London on Tuesday that he wanted the rights of EU nationals living in the U.K. to be among the first questions settled in talks over the country’s exit from the bloc. “It is certainly something that is being considered,” Jones told the EU committee of the House of Lords, when asked if there was merit in making a unilateral declaration to guarantee EU residents’ rights.

The fate of three million EU nationals living in the U.K. is one of the most difficult questions for May to resolve. She has said she wants to ensure they can stay in Britain after the country leaves the EU but that she’s waiting for other European leaders to guarantee similar rights for British nationals living elsewhere in Europe first.

OK, so after saying it couldn't do this, as EU citizens were bargaining chips the government now appears to be saying that it is 'considering' allowing EU citizens to stay but May can't do this because of the EU being somehow in the wrong for not saying that Brits can stay first.

Yep nasty the EU for voting to leave the EU. Uh...

Oh and...

Matt Viser ‏*@mviser*
CNN now reporting that Russian spies claim to have personal and financial information that compromises Donald Trump.

edition.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/index.html
Intel chiefs presented Trump with claims of Russian efforts to compromise him

Classified documents presented last week to President Obama and President-elect Trump included allegations that Russian operatives claim to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump, multiple US officials with direct knowledge of the briefings tell CNN.

The allegations were presented in a two-page synopsis that was appended to a report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible. The FBI is investigating the credibility and accuracy of these allegations, which are based primarily on information from Russian sources, but has not confirmed many essential details in the memos about Mr. Trump.

Hmmm.

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RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 22:36

This is worth noting about that CNN story about Trump:

David Greenwald ‏*@davidegreenwald*
Note the byline of Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein on this article

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TheNorthRemembers · 10/01/2017 22:38

Corbyn has done his damnedest today that no leaver or remainer should ever vote Labour again. What is wrong with the man?!

That CNN link is very interesting.

TheNorthRemembers · 10/01/2017 22:39

Wow about Carl Bernstein.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 22:46

And the Financial Times published this in the last hour.

www.ft.com/content/33285dfa-9231-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923
Dirty money: Trump and the Kazakh connection
FT probe finds evidence a Trump venture has links to alleged laundering network

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RedToothBrush · 10/01/2017 22:48

Sorry, that's been retweeted in the last hour! Date on it is Oct last year!

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