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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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woman12345 · 11/01/2017 11:19

Thanks red, beautifully put.

Comey Hmm percentage points lost in those crucial last 7 days, which could have swung electoral college votes. And knowing about the Trump stuff and silence............ Sessions is fucking terrifying.

And airstrip one for us. We can be their Downton Abbey and work in their kitchens. Post Brexit Britain, might be like a sort of 'Downtonworld' a la Disney land, where you can park your tax free wealth and live 'like real English royalty' while the eccentric natives serve you their odd food. And grandparents will tell stories about a time when The Guardian and other newspapers told real stories about true events, and there was an NHS etc etc.

Wonderful and inspirational as Obama is, he doesn't quite get how insulting it is to be in rust belt town, bringing up your crack addicted kids' children, to be told that marriage equality is an achievement, or that the economy is booming, when you are stranded in zero Mac Job land eternal penury. But I am so glad I lived to see the day he was elected and served 2 terms.

And the other one ( and Bernie) did, that's the difference.

lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 11:45

My hunch (prayer) is that Obama is going to be a thorn in Trump's side both directly - by speaking out against his excesses and ego-driven stupidity much more freely than he ever was able to while still in the White House - and perhaps indirectly by setting up some sort of foundation/think tank which foreign dignitaries will feel much more comfortable giving their warm support to than they will to Trump and his cronies. I think Obama could end up being Trump's real opposition, at least in the short to medium term.

InformalRoman · 11/01/2017 12:56

Trump is back on Twitter - claiming no connections at all with Russia.

But those claims about no links with Russia have already been disproved:

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/?client=safari

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 12:59

Obama's hinted strongly at that lala hope so.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 13:58

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/11/britain-considering-1000-a-year-levy-for-skilled-eu-workers-robert-goodwill?CMP=twt_gu

Britain considering £1,000-a-year levy for skilled EU workers
Immigration minister tells peers post-Brexit levy would be ‘helpful to British workers who feel they are overlooked’

UNWORKABLE.

Try distinguishing between pre-Brexit EU citizens and post-Brexit EU citizens and whilst also saying that there is no discrimination.

Plus, agriculture needs labour...

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missmoon · 11/01/2017 14:01

Not to mention the enormous burden on the NHS, schools, universities, etc. Totally unworkable.

missmoon · 11/01/2017 14:02

The administration costs of this policy would probably be in excess of £1000 per worker, and the added costs imposed on business (and the public sector) must fall on someone. Either higher taxes or higher prices.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 11/01/2017 14:46

Also why a levy for EU workers but not nonEU workers???
Is that not discrimination too?

And I'm sure that a lot of British people will be happy to go to work in thnto fields whilst also paying more for food....

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2017 14:50

Businesses affected by a £1,000 levy would have 2 main choices:
. Move to the rEU
. Put up prices and / or go bust
Good to hear what "Britain is open for business" means

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 15:19

Meanwhile in France Emmanuel-Macron is gaining on Fillon. Is this good or bad for le Pen?

SilentBatperson · 11/01/2017 15:24

There is going to be one for non-EU workers too.

lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 16:04

A surcharge is absolutely bonkers, we need skilled workers, even bloody Farage grasps that (and we need unskilled workers but let's put that to one side for the moment). I enjoyed this BTL comment:

"Finally, Darren from Sunderland can become a neurosurgeon. That nasty EU - that was the problem."

GlassOfPort · 11/01/2017 16:05

At last someone seems to be talking sense in the Labour party...pity it's just a local councillor

www.progressonline.org.uk/2017/01/11/the-country-deserves-an-alternative/

Not so long ago, British politics revolved around the question of The Deficit. Labour promised to cut the deficit more nicely than those nasty Tories would. As many people couldn’t see the point of this, Labour then lost a general election.

Now, British politics is split in two by the fissure of Brexit. To try to keep a foot on either side of the gap, Labour promised to do Brexit more nicely than those nasty Tories would. Many people do not see the point of this.

We may not see it yet, so bewildered do we feel, but an enormous swathe of political territory is opening up before the party. And planted smack in the middle of this territory is a great big sign reading ‘THE ECONOMY’.

For nearly 10 years, Labour has been the wrong side of the political debate on ‘the economy’. But now the prime minister has firmly placed her government on that same, wrong, side. What May has done is to make a bet that the public will tolerate a poorer country in return for less immigration

usuallydormant · 11/01/2017 16:26

Marine le Pen has a hard core of under one quarter who will vote for her - she is going to find it hard to add to that no matter who is in the mix. Macron's chances depend on who the official Left candidate is as that is going to spit his vote.

At the moment, there are some permutations that mean that le Pen mightn't even make it to the second round :) , which has been what people are fearing. However, there is NO sense that she can possibly get 50% of voters to vote for her. Le Pen is a toxic brand, even if the policies might be shared by lots of French - and they can vote for Fillon instead. She's having funding problems, family problems and the French are feeling more inclined towards Europe from watching Brexit and Trump. Nor is she advocating a Frexit any more.

Macron is very interesting and could do very well in the first round, but not sure he will get through to round two.

It's a long time till polling day but I'm not sure many of them are going to change how Brexit goes for the UK.

Mistigri · 11/01/2017 16:33

Some polls are showing that Macron beats Fillon if he gets through to the second round. In a head to head, he also does better against Le Pen than Fillon (but they both beat MLP by a landslide).

However he has to get through the first round, and that is by no means certain.

usuallydormant · 11/01/2017 16:45

I think if Valls gets through, Macron drops. I have had a lot of friends (centre/left) who have been talking about Macron over the last few months - he's a bit of a fresh breeze and hopefully has the ability to appeal to the centre on both sides. If I had a vote, he'd be probably my choice.

I also read a hilarious interview with some 90 years leftists with one old dear saying she'd vote for him - because it says a lot about a man that he'd marry a woman 20 years older than him :)

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 17:44

Trump just had a go at the BBC after going after Buzzfeed and attacking a CNN reporter at his press conference.

The BBC have been reporting that there is more than one source for the Trump Intel. He reacted very badly to their question too after initially trying to ignore them.

Trump can attack American based media. MUCH more difficult to attack the BBC for political reasons. Could get interesting. Why does the BBC bother him so much? As I say, will the BBC and other British Media get thrown under the wheels of the Trump Presidency?

Will try and find the footage.

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woman12345 · 11/01/2017 17:50

“BBC News, that’s another beauty,” Trump says.......
This was quite an exchange between Trump and CNN’s persistent Jim Acosta, whom Trump denied a question:
@ElizLanders
.@Acosta's exchange with the President-elect during this Trump presser:

squoosh · 11/01/2017 17:54

His rant at the CNN reporter was just appalling

'Your organisation is terrible'
'Quiet'
'Don't be rude'
I'm not going to give you a question. You are fake news'

He's be better employed directing that towards his Breitbart pals, purveyors of actual fake news.

I think the press are going to be number one tricky for Trump during his time as President. If this is day one how the hell is it going to continue from here?!

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 17:58

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-claims-sex-prostitute-money-corruption-a7522001.html
Dossier is not a hoax according to CIA and UK:
Patrick Skinner, a former CIA analyst, commented “ I imagine a lot more will come out, much of it will be nothing and perhaps some of it will be meaningful and perhaps even devastating.”

Robert Emerson, a British security analyst, was of the view “ This seems to be raw intelligence which is very interesting, but needs further work and a thorough analysis of humint (human intelligence) sourcing. This will happen, the allegations will be looked at exhaustively.”

InformalRoman · 11/01/2017 18:02

It's 59 minutes in where he refuses to take a question from CNN and then straight after has a go st the BBC: www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509137239/watch-live-trump-holds-first-press-conference-as-president-elect

ukusatoday · 11/01/2017 18:08

I guess the trail will lead back to Tony Blair.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 18:13

How the hell is May going to square this?

So it starts. Chapter II: Brexit v Trump.

Good luck with that one May. You are going to have to make Trump palatable to Tory Voting Middle England somehow at some point. I'm not sure any of the British Media are going to be terribly keen on that.

CNN has stood by the report.

(Btw, Louise Mensch - yep really - is a good follow for anti-Trump stuff!)

BBC news just said they are reporting the dossier because they think it was important as it was regarded as important enough (credible enough) to be given to Trump and Obama themselves. Editorial line seems (for now) that they are going after him due to his reaction. Said he was 'bitten' at that press conference. They smell a wounded animal.

Could May call the BBC off, if she wanted to? Difficult for government to openly intervene. Would require it to be a national security issue given popular opinion I suspect, even with doubts about government influence over BBC.

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woman12345 · 11/01/2017 18:28

@EmmaKennedy because I think they have it now and impeachment is on way.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 18:32

Interesting tweetstorm. But as I say, BBC more difficult for Trump to deal with. Plus they have stood by their position after the news conference.

Ijeoma Oluo ‏*@IjeomaOluo*
DON'T LET TRUMP DISTRACT YOU FROM THE FACTS THAT ARE OUT THERE
What Trump did with @cnn was carefully designed, and very dangerous. Listen up
Trump went on and on about @BuzzFeed knowing that a lot of people don't consider BuzzFeed to be legit news. Then he tossed CNN in there
knowing that the two would be linked & conflated (note: I was even confused for a minute as to which he was talking about)
then Trump immediately, publically rebuked CNN and attempted to discredit them, calling them "fake news" while his staff cheered
What the public saw was Trump calling out a big bad fake-news org and the people cheering for it
They didn't know Trump was calling out CNN for thoroughly and ethically reporting important news on Trump & Russia
They didn't know the cheers were coming from Trump staffers.
They heard the buzzword "fake-news" they saw Trump yell, people cheer
So now Trump doesn't have to answer questions from CNN on these allegations that he may have been compromised by Russia
& he & his staff can now wholeheartedly dismiss this important work as "fake-news" - and the people will buy it
why? Because not a single reporter there spoke up in defense of CNN. They saw their peer denigrated & simply rushed in 2 ask their questions
Trump made an example of CNN and none of the reporters there balked.
Even though if they attempt to accurately report on Trump, they'll surely be next.
note the subtle warning he gave @BBCNews soon after
This is how democracies die. When we let our press be bullied and intimidated away from reporting the truth.

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