Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
unicornsIlovethem · 17/01/2017 14:18

Nick Clegg, the former Lib Dem leader and former deputy prime minister, has accused Theresa May of turning her party into “Ukip-lite”. He said:

On the same day that the leader of the world’s largest communist party publicly lectures the world on the virtues of free trade, Theresa May has finally turned her back on Margaret Thatcher’s greatest economic achievement, the world’s largest borderless single market. It’s an astonishing mutation from Conservative into Ukip-light.

By siding with Donald Trump and against Angela Merkel, Theresa May has made it inevitable that the rest of the EU will react by safeguarding the integrity of the EU itself. Throwing the gauntlet down against the rest of Europe, the PM is virtually guaranteeing that acrimony rather than compromise will prevail.

Go Clegg

"The prime minister has pledged to act in the interests of the young and future generations. Yet she has now set herself on a course which emphatically rejects what the overwhelming majority of young voters said they wanted in the Brexit referendum. Claiming to represent the interests of the young whilst pursuing a hard Brexit which will damage their interests will only deepen the generational divide highlighted by the Brexit referendum. This speech is a kick in the teeth for the youth of Britain."

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 14:19

We are on our own in this, they won't all be leaping off the ship to join us.

Is is also possible that the other EU countries will say that no, the UK can't have opt ins to European Security measures? This, I would suggest, is in reality, the only decent bargaining chip we do have.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2017 14:27

Godfrey Bloom: "Leavers create wealth, Remainers in the main consume it"
Confused ?
I thought Remainers were supposed to be the eductated and mobile "elite," while Leavers were the poor left behind wc on minimum wage, without the skills to work abroad.

(In fact many Leavers are retired with final salary, index linked & triple lock pensions. Not exactly current contributors, if he really wishes to divide the population into sheep & goats)

EmilyAlice · 17/01/2017 14:29

I think it is possible that pension increases could go but not sure how it would benefit the UK to stop paying pensions abroad. Much cheaper to leave us here I would think. I have to pay UK tax on my occupational pension anyway (which hasn't had an increase for several years).

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 14:33

A system where you have to live in the country to be able to receive your pension isn't unusual actually. The US do that as wall as other countries (Norway is another one I think)

The point of this for me, is that it could make remaining in Spain uneconomic for a good many pensioners, who would have to return - bringing their health needs with them.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2017 14:35

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2017 14:38

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 14:39

Now either there is a lot of people changing their mind about whether Brexit was a good idea or not, or people are changing their voting intension a lot.

Not necessarily. There was no "don't know" option for the referendum.

Interestingly the city's/ currency markets' main take-away from May's speech seems to be that parliament will get a vote.

Bobochic · 17/01/2017 14:40

"Britain wants the brightest and the best"

If you want to attract the brightest and the best, you have to offer long-term certainty so that people can establish themselves and have plans, buy homes, educate their DC without fearing for their future. Who in their right mind would trust Britain now?

Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2017 14:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 14:42

so what will happen to to an individual who has paid NI for a good 20 + years whilst working in the UK and whose spouse may not qualify for Right to Remain so they have to move to the country of origin of said partner (if they let in the British spouse). Will the person who has paid NI for decades basically end up with no pension whatsoever..... ?!

howabout · 17/01/2017 14:43

The point of this for me, is that it could make remaining in Spain uneconomic for a good many pensioners, who would have to return - bringing their health needs with them.

We are already paying into the Spanish healthcare system on their behalf though. If they come home then they are spending their UK pension in the UK economy.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 14:44

Reuters UK ‏*@ReutersUK*
BREAKING: UK Brexit minister Davis says if Parliament rejects Brexit deal it won't change the fact that UK is leaving EU

David Davis has just said in the commons that if parliament rejects the final deal and votes against it, we are leaving anyway.

So what the FUCKING HELL is the point in the vote? That's either support or or get the blame for chaotic Brexit.

That's not a free choice. Nor is it consistent with democracy. Its a gun to your head.

Therefore, if SC says a50 vote has to go through parliament, fight the insanity of it, and make sure that there are amendments and that any potential blame is firmly on the neck of May and her cronies.

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 17/01/2017 14:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 14:46

Will the person who has paid NI for decades basically end up with no pension whatsoever..... ?!

Yep... Citizens of nowhere.

OP posts:
Mistigri · 17/01/2017 14:47

We are already paying into the Spanish healthcare system on their behalf though.

Youre basically outsourcing their healthcare. The question is not one of money, but of other resources. If you kick out working age EU employees, and get back pensioners (which is what will happen), who will you employ to care for them?

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 14:47

"If you want to attract the brightest and the best, you have to offer long-term certainty so that people can establish themselves and have plans, buy homes, educate their DC without fearing for their future. Who in their right mind would trust Britain now?"

this with bells on.

Teresa May and her thuggish buddies in the conservative party have already messed over millions of' brightest and best' families, families and individuals who settled here in good faith working as academics, medics, business..

who even if they were granted the right to remain may be pushed out due to xenophobia they experience in this 'united' britain. Not many of the non-Britsih born 'brightest and best' would like to hang around if their children are targeted with xenophobia as they grow up.

Bobochic · 17/01/2017 14:47

Lots of people are going to lose their rights. It's a human rights scandal - daylight robbery.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 14:48

Pension, Health Care, Social Care...

I really want all those pensioners to come up to boost our economy... Hmm

I think now is the time to go into Funeral Directing. Its a growth market and Brexit opportunity.

OP posts:
user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 14:50

'Yep... Citizens of nowhere.' lovely they wee better had wealthy parents who won't live long enough for their assets to be eaten up by care home costs. -half kiddin--

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 14:51

If you want to attract the brightest and the best, you have to offer long-term certainty so that people can establish themselves and have plans, buy homes, educate their DC without fearing for their future. Who in their right mind would trust Britain now?

This. Two years ago I could have imagined my kids returning for uni. Not now.

One of DD's close friends, a Dutch lad who will complete his bac this year, was looking at Cambridge. Will be interested to see if he has changed his mind.

Bobochic · 17/01/2017 14:51

user3592 - I know masses of very clever young French people who are studying at U.K. universities. While they do not regret their decision to study in the U.K. they most certainly now wish to look for work in France or elsewhere in the EU and not in unreliable basket case Britain.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 17/01/2017 14:51

user
IF The pension was only given to those still living in the uk,

  • the eu citizen kicked out of the uk would loose the pension they ave accrued here
  • the British partner who is ending up forced to move to the eu would loose their pension too unless they go back to the uk in retirement age.

Or at least that's how I would understand it.

At the moment, both people would get their pension but frozen at the value it had when they leave (which if you are in your 40s will mean not a lot at all once you reach 65yo....).

Basically, regardless of how you look at it, not only people are losing their home but they are also loosing their pensions...

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 14:52

Angela Eagle ‏*@angelaeagle*
Govt say no deal is better than a bad deal but no deal is a bad deal #brexitshambles

OP posts:
user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 14:54

Basically, regardless of how you look at it, not only people are losing their home but they are also loosing their pensions...

pardon me but FUCKING HELL how is this possibly lawful? since when has this rule been in place.