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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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woman12345 · 09/01/2017 18:22

Interesting that Protestants are SNP but opposite in NI.

SilentBatperson · 09/01/2017 19:29

My guess is those 8% of Unionists will be the economic unionists. Probably mostly Protestants: Catholic economic unionists tend not to identify themselves as such and often vote for non-Unionist parties. If so, if they're considering reunification, it will be because they think being in the UK no longer provides them with a better gig.

Arborea · 09/01/2017 19:33

It's a bit fanciful to entertain thoughts of a united Ireland when up to 92% of unionists are likely to be opposed.

I never thought I'd see the day that I would tip the hat to Martin McGuinness though Shock

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2017 19:47

The government has been defeated the Lords over the Higher Education and Research Bill. 248 votes to221.

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SilentBatperson · 09/01/2017 19:53

What are the numbers in the electorate these days? I know there are tipped to be more Catholics in about 10-15 years but the percentage isn't even across the population: the older the age group, the higher the percentage of Protestants. It will take longer for the electorate to catch up with that.

But as the percentage of self-declared adult Unionists (who realistically are going to be overwhelmingly Protestant) dips closer to half of NI, 8% of them isn't too far from a potential critical mass. It seems reasonable to assume that if Protestant economic unionists are giving thought to a united Ireland, their Catholic and Other equivalents are doing the same thing. After all, they don't have the same cultural baggage in favour of remaining in the UK. Don't get me wrong, I don't think a united Ireland is on the cards for a while, but if this number is reliable it's potentially very significant.

Rhubarbforall · 09/01/2017 19:56

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Justchanged · 09/01/2017 20:06

Brexit gives a lot of logic to Irish reunification, which I personally feel would in the long-term be a great thing. NI is too small an entity to be a viable state. As a united Ireland, it could be part of an outward looking EU country, well educated, English-speaking and attractive to foreign investment. As part of Brexit Britain, it is an anachronistic backwater, self-obsessed as to whether it has the right to exist.

I can't see many Protestants voting for it though, as too much of Unionist identity is bound up with being not Irish, not Catholic and more British than the British. Whilst around 90% of Catholics voted Remain, around 60% of Protestants voted Leave; I find the latter shockingly high, given that Brexit had no positives for NI, and that NI was overall less affected by immigration than elsewhere.

woman12345 · 09/01/2017 20:07

SilentBatperson thanks, really interesting. Sectarian divides in Scotland were the elephant in the room in the independence campaign, but I wonder if they played and play an important part in how the result panned out. Watching NI with great interest.

woman12345 · 09/01/2017 20:09

Brexit had no positives for NI and that it would almost inevitably lead to the present pickle, with hard/soft borders and re unification.

Arborea · 09/01/2017 20:17

The trouble is though that a straight Irish reunification would probably prompt violence from Loyalists, so I can't just see that happening even in the medium term, and even if NI is on its knees economically post Brexit. Something very fudgey like a federalised state is more likely, though it's doubtful that ROI would be thrilled with the additional baggage.

I would love the NI issues to be the Brexit deal breaker, giving May (or more likely her successor) the excuse to run a further referendum...

woman12345 · 09/01/2017 20:24

I would love the NI issues to be the Brexit deal breaker it absolutely should have been in the EU campaign. It is barely taught, known about or discussed in mainland Britain. I learnt more about the civil war in Ireland in 1980s America than I did in Britain. NI peace was one of the most precious and hopeful outcomes of the late Major and subsequent Blair govts. Looks like I'll be learning more about NI politics over the coming months.

SilentBatperson · 09/01/2017 20:28

NI Protestant loyalty to the UK hasn't been tested in the purse yet though. The UK has always been the more economically viable option.

I could see quite a significant bloc of Protestants preferring a united Ireland if enough shit were to hit enough fans, particularly now the influence of the RC church is waning. It's the level opposition from other Protestants that might be the problem, I think, rather than the number of Protestants who might be persuaded if they thought they'd have a better life. Would take a fairly trashed UK economy, but it's not like that isn't a realistic possibility, is it?

Lico · 09/01/2017 20:43

I enclose comments from a friend, Leave voter, on an article that I posted earlier. A typical Leave voter, early sixties , worked most his life between Continent and UK, speaks 4 languages. Did not vote Leave because of immigration but disagreed with further integration. He is now really pissed off that the whole Leave saga has turned into an immigration witch-hunt against EU nationals.

'Shame not more emphasis on Labour's role. Corbyn always wanted to leave the EU throughout his life, everyone knows that. Also, the change in Labour came during the late 1980s when the Delors reforms changed what the EU is. I didn't see this discussed but it was and is fundamental to the way the EU is seen from the UK, though of course not from elsewhere. The Labour Party suddenly became converted to the EU around 1990 when it was seen less as a rich man's club (as it had been seen hitherto) and much more as protecting social and workers' rights. That's when lifelong opponents of the EEC such as Kinnock suddenly changed their spots and became a big pig snorting from the Brussels trough - what a hypocrite!... Anyway, that's a long story in itself, and one I have read a lot about. The British unions worked with Delors and his people to create a new form of EU culminating in the Maastricht Treaty. Which is when I realised what was going on, and was deeply worried about it.

They do mention what a mistake it was by Blair not to have the 7-year moratorium on Poles etc coming in after 2001. A massive mistake as it turned out. Culminated in all EU citizens being lumped together as unwelcome immigrants swamping towns like Boston. And created all the conditions that ended in the referendum.

No mention that the Major years - apart from Maastricht tearing the Tories apart - saw him encouraging the Eastern Europeans into the EU - not for reasons they say, but it was to thwart the Franco-German axis that controlled EU policies. How naïve that was!

Also no mention of the lack of reciprocity in the years after the 1992 Single Market started. Britain opened up, and saw much of its infrastructure bought by EU companies, while Germany in particular continued to use all the ruses in the book to protect theirs. This made me mad then and still does now. The market in goods was opened very quickly (which suited EU competitors), but the market in services has even now not been completed (which disadvantages the UK). Reciprocity... hmmm!

But the main point of the article is that the UK's gripes with the EU stem for the most part from the UK's own policy failures! I completely agree. How I wish it had all been different. And I was saying it all the time since 1990 or so. So sad.'

www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/howorth_en_politique_etrangere_vol._81_ndeg_4_hiver_2016-2017.pdf

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2017 21:36

Well a few people have been brewing a hell of a story on Trump from different angles. Potentially reputable sources but its not made it in newspapers. It reads like a conspiracy story. Yet...Money laundering. Surely not. Funny how thats cropped up a couple of times. We shall see. Could be fake news... Hmm...

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woman12345 · 09/01/2017 21:41

A political crisis amid the churn of Brexit should see politicians face up to the real problems in the province. Unfortunately there is no sign that they want to
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/the-guardian-view-on-northern-ireland-there-may-be-trouble-ahead

woman12345 · 09/01/2017 21:46

Artists' cultural boycott of Trump:
www.e-flux.com/announcements/90687/j20-art-strike-an-invitation-to-cultural-institutions/

woman12345 · 09/01/2017 21:59

Looks like you've got another scoop, Red!
Adam Khan ‏*@Khanoisseur* 1h1 hour ago
Whoever leaked Trump's tax return (claimed $1.2B loss today's money) to NYT was saying "dig deeper-huge story here" @amlivemon @20committee

lalalonglegs · 10/01/2017 07:43

Meanwhile, the Labour party in no hurry to test the popularity of new, improved Corbyn - the Copeland by-election might not take place until May!

It's almost impossible to imagine Trump not being impeached in the next few months.

tiggytape · 10/01/2017 08:06

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tiggytape · 10/01/2017 08:11

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Kaija · 10/01/2017 08:44

"Full access" is meaningless though isn't it?

prettybird · 10/01/2017 09:16

I suspect that it's another case of assuming that everlasting cake exists Hmm

Switzerland ended up "blinking" when it realised the consequences of its restrictions on FoM (being frozen out of scientific/collobaration/student funding etc).

Sadly, I think those running our country (and the official "Opposition" Hmm) are so blinkered that they'll blame the EU when they find that they can't have their cake and eat it.