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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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Peregrina · 16/01/2017 10:58

So what could May do to bring Gove back into line?

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/01/2017 11:03

The photo of Trump and Gove giving the thumbs up in front of a framed Playboy cover is just puke inducing. Gove is such a brown nosing little crawler. Murdoch's little puppy.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/01/2017 11:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

TuckersBadLuck · 16/01/2017 11:05

any trade deal will first of all be good for the US.

Indeed. It's hard to reconcile the UK (with the £ at a 35 year low against the $ and probably well below that after A50) being offered an immediate great trade deal with the US at the same time as Trump is threatening companies which export cars to the US with 35% tariffs.

Our largest export to the US is cars.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 16/01/2017 11:07

If I were May, I'd ignore the attention-seeking little shit.

Peregrina · 16/01/2017 11:20

Our largest export to the US is cars.

It's going to take a lot of tea and jam sales to make up for that!

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2017 11:26

www.ft.com/content/6ebff604-d8e3-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e
Theresa May set to clash with Lords over ‘Henry VIII’ powers

Great Repeal Bill would allow government to repeal or amend laws with little scrutiny

"Any sniff of ministers wanting a power grab will go down very badly,” he said. “If the bill signals an intention to railroad stuff through then there will be a constitutional row.”

Trouble brewing.

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whatwouldrondo · 16/01/2017 11:55

But then the UK is largely exporting cars that target particular niches in the market, particularly the luxury end. 25% tariff will probably just see the price of a Jaguar or Bentley rise in line or more likely behind, the incomes of the top 2% in Trump's America.......

InformalRoman · 16/01/2017 12:05

It's not just high end cars that are exported to the US though:

A new [Honda] Civic will come off the line at Swindon every 69 seconds, with about 800 vehicles produced per day – nearly half of which will go to America as part of the new post-Brexit export blitz.

A 35% import tax would mean those compact models can't compete with US built models.

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3791684/Built-Britain-car-conquer-America-Brexit-boost-Honda-makes-UK-global-hub.html

Cailleach1 · 16/01/2017 12:05

Wow, not a dickie bird about her involvement in the RHI from Arlene Foster in her read statement. Noticed the word 'Independent' missing from the inquiry into the RHI. Most of the statement about Sinn Féin's self interest in going to the electorate. In fact, most of any interview with the DUP in relation to this issue focuses on SF. Deflection from any question into the issue.

She would be nigh on back now if she had merely stepped aside for the four weeks which included Christmas. Complicity in corruption not uncovered, of course. Can't imagine her stepping down for being incapable or merely negligent. Wonder if everything is shredded and everybody who needed to be stummed now (if it needed doing). Jonathan Bell notwithstanding.

Cailleach1 · 16/01/2017 12:17

Is Gove there as a journalist/columnist for 'The Times' representing Murdoch's pov? Or is he there as a MP representing his constituents. Is there a conflict of interest between the two.

I noticed Andrew Neil didn't have any reply for Max Mosley when he said an independent regulator would have to be out of the hands and influence of the Media Barons. Neil had worked for Murdoch. Yet he was pointlessly but doggedly questioning Mosley about statements third parties had made and saying they were not impartial in relation to the mostly non dom (not for tax purposes, of course!) Baron owned media.

Then when Piers Morgan came on to talk about this pal Trump, no hard questions. In fact treated Morgan like a completely impartial and credible viewpoint. Certainly not a mention of Russia. How the heck can this be the best political analysis or discussion a country of over 60 million people can put on to the public? Or not have any better options than the talking heads they repeatedly wheel out.

whatwouldrondo · 16/01/2017 12:37

Informal My point was more on the rising wealth of the top 2%, their interests will dictate policy in Trump's America. So a UK that becomes the 51st state offering them tax breaks, a market to exploit for their goods and services, including healthcare, it's technical know how to produce luxury penis substitutes and it's constitutional monarch to provide Trump with a chance for some posthumous validation from a mother who preferred to watch the Queen than talk to him would do very nicely for them, thanks. Obviously much better than a U.K. in a liberal alliance with it's neighbours to protect it's social provision, set standards for worker and environmental protection etc. etc.

Let the Brits enjoy their illusions of national identity and sovereignty, the new Opium of the masses, whilst US capitalism gets free rein.....

woman12345 · 16/01/2017 13:08

Wonder if everything is shredded and everybody who needed to be stummed now (if it needed doing). Jonathan Bell notwithstanding could you tell a bit more on this Cailleach1 ? Or any article links? Did TM know it was corrupt scheme to keep her DUP chums?
Peter Haynes was on R4 about it this morning, but strangely the BBC often seems unable to find anyone from NI to talk about NI.
.

woman12345 · 16/01/2017 13:09

Agree, Morgan interview on SP was creepy.

prettybird · 16/01/2017 13:18

Really must re-read 1984 if I want to be really depressed - not sure about the 51st state but Orwell seems to gave been amazingly prescient about lots of things about categorising us as Airstrip One and a world in constant conflict to keep the proles in control Sad

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2017 14:38

I've just watched a Storyville programme from 2014-15 on magician James Randi called Exposed: Magician, Psychics and Frauds.

Its NOTHING at all to do with Brexit or Trump or Politics.

However it is about our relationship with the truth and the beliefs. It looks at the psychology of lying and how its addictive in its nature as it makes you feel powerful and its difficult to resist. It examines why people like Uri Geller and telly evangelists are popular.

Its worth a watch is you are interested in that side of things, as there one or two comments that really do make you realise how on earth we got here and how difficult it will be able to convince people differently.

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Cailleach1 · 16/01/2017 14:40

woman, it is speculation on my part, (if it needed doing). I just wonder why such a simple thing as stepping aside for 4 weeks which straddled the holidays was not a goer. One can only speculate. This was an issue where Caesar really needed to be seen to be above suspicion as it involves all the constituents in NI, including Unionists who Foster says she represents. Even as first minister. It was not a partisan issue.

Even when the media did get someone from NI to speak on the issue, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson spent most of his time talking about Sinn Féin and not addressing the handling of the RHI scheme.

Cailleach1 · 16/01/2017 14:45

Red, that programme was brilliant. You have to buy his book on amazon to find out how he bent the cutlery, just like Geller, though. I may be driven.

It was so sad about the con guy who was using the radio ear piece. The families whose last weeks/months was sabotaged by a snake oil salesman giving false succour. After exposure, he went on to make millions with other gigs.

Yes, the belief comes before the trick.

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2017 14:50

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jan/16/mary-beard-arron-banks-eu-ukip-twitter-rome?CMP=share_btn_tw
Mary Beard v Arron Banks.

What happened when they went to lunch.

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Bearbehind · 16/01/2017 15:20

There's lots in the press today about TM's speech tomorrow. When you stand back and think about the fact we are completely at her mercy waiting to hear how she has decided to interpret a vote that's already happened it's surreal really.

BrexshitMeansBrexshit · 16/01/2017 15:35

I agree, Bear. How did we get to this point? It's mind-blowing really. Remain voters have been fairly quiet up until now, which maybe gives the impression that everyone is ready to accept whatever hard/soft/red/white/blue Brexit she decides is 'the will of the people', but I think May's reluctance to acknowledge that a sizeable proportion of the population either could not/did not vote, or voted against Brexit, will not do her any favours.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 16/01/2017 15:51

I agree Bear but I also suspect it's deeply rooted in the fact that everyone has to follow whatever the leader of the party says.
So even if there was some softer brexiter in the Conservative party, they aren't allowed to express their opinion.
Add to that a weak Labour Party and the fact that other parties, bar UKIP of course, are given no air time and never have been ......

It's funny in some ways, how all these things that were making me unconfortable before re re the political system here, have in effect created The situation we are in now.

woman12345 · 16/01/2017 16:14

Mary Beard is a mensch.

mathanxiety · 16/01/2017 16:36

'Airstrip One' might end up as 'Golf Course One'.