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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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Thread gallery
5
Mistigri · 15/01/2017 22:03

Has Louise Mensch ever been right about anything?

Genuine question. Here's hoping my cynicism is misplaced.

RubyPumps · 15/01/2017 22:15

GBPUSD 2.20
GBPEUR 1.133

RubyPumps · 15/01/2017 22:16

1.20 GBPUSD obv. Excuse typo

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 22:17

Mistigri.... errrr.... thinks hard.... errrrrr..... how long have I got to think about this?

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RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 22:19

Of course there is propaganda going on.

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Christmaslight22 · 15/01/2017 22:41

WifeofDarth - that's not what I meant. What I was pointing out is that powerful women have historically done Vogue shoots.

Lico · 15/01/2017 22:42

Am really stressed out about next week!!
My DH just announced that Trump might be a Russian agent!😄
He is reading the Sunday Times right now and seems serious about his statement.
The world is going insane...

mathanxiety · 15/01/2017 22:54

Kaija Sun 15-Jan-17 20:57:25
Math is is just the hacking that you are doubtful about, or do you also doubt Russia's coordinated use of social media?

The hacking is pretty dubious - contrary to the assertion of former UK Ambassador Russia Andrew Wood it is not now up to those accused (or more accurately, smeared) to disprove allegations made when nothing has been offered by way of solid evidence.

Co-ordinated use of social media is something done by almost every interest group and lobbying group out there, every political party, many individual politicians, as well as marketers of all stripes. It is part of life as we know it. It makes no difference who does it.

If individual citizens are so likely to fall prey to the viewpoint of the Russian government (or the NRA or the tobacco lobby or the pro porn or pro prostitution lobby) we have to take a good hard look at why this is so. Why does that narrative resonate?

We know enough about branding and marketing to enable us to be able to set forth another message and make it appealing.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 22:58

Gove to Trump: so we are at the front of the queue?

Not much reeks as much as desperation.

Simon N Rickettsia @SimonNRicketts
This is what all political journalists do once they’ve conducted a serious interview - and not a PR piece. Definitely.

Photo of Trump and Gove with thumbs up.

We have politicians seemingly sucking up to Trump whilst our intelligence services are apparently scared that our sources will be compromised with Russia.

Smoke and Mirrors.

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woman12345 · 15/01/2017 23:02

Posted too soon, it was written pre the latest scandal.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 23:03

Why does that narrative resonate?

I don't disagree.

Doesn't mean that there's not a problem in one place when you know about the one here and it doesn't mean that the solution on offer is going to improve any situation.

Lack of accountability doesn't mean you replace it with something even less accountable.

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SwedishEdith · 15/01/2017 23:09

Don't have nightmares, folks.

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.
RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 23:13

Ian Warren*@election*_data
Next week @GeorgeOsborne interviews Erdogan. Only in @thetimes 👍

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InformalRoman · 15/01/2017 23:22

Just read the Gove interview. It's a fluff piece, nothing at all newsworthy. The only vaguely interesting thing is Trump saying he's going to continue using his own Twitter account.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 23:26

You almost sound surprised informal.

It's clickbait for the broadsheets isn't it?

( Not read. Don't intend to even if it's not firewalls precisely for that reason. It couldn't be anything but that given the accompanying photo)

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InformalRoman · 15/01/2017 23:33

I registered for my free Times article. Wish I hadn't bothered.

Donald J Trump appears like a man who has been plugged into some power source where the dial has been turned up to levels well beyond what the safety regulations would recommend. His skin glows a sodium orange, his hair is blonder than any human you will have encountered and his clothes are in primary colours so bold they make everyone else in the room seem dowdy.

And so on and so forth. The Times should be ashamed.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 23:43

Question: did May put Gove up to the Times interview?

If she didn't then is Give up to him old tricks and trying to undermine her? Why is a backbencher doing this type of diplomacy (it sure as hell isn't journalism)

Or is it a way for the Conservatives to out manoeuvre Farage and his photo ops by saying to him and the public, ' look we can do that too'

It's all very odd however you cut in really.

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Peregrina · 15/01/2017 23:45

Did The Times really write that twaddle? It's almost on a par with what Private Eye would write!

InformalRoman · 15/01/2017 23:57

I'm surprised it didn't have the byline "as told to Craig Brown".

mathanxiety · 15/01/2017 23:58

I refer you back to RTB's very interesting link showing TV shows and who likes them in the US. Media provides something for every interest and attitude to feed upon. To what extent does the native US entertainment industry create the echo chambers and heighten the fears and pander to the prejudices that have seemingly taken over society and broken it into pieces? Talk radio is an egregious example of station owners putting profit before responsibility.

BlueberryGateaux · 15/01/2017 23:58

This is indeed the stuff of nightmares Sad

Kaija · 16/01/2017 00:23

" Why does that narrative resonate?"

Well I would say one reason is that that narrative has been carefully tailored to resonate with he concerns of its target audience. Another is that the trolling, by amplifying the chosen messages across social media, is creating its own resonance.

"We know enough about branding and marketing to enable us to be able to set forth another message and make it appealing."

Are you saying here that Russia's involvement is essentially just "marketing", and the solution is to manipulate social media ourselves, using the same devices?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2017 02:03

Russia's 2015 hacking of the German Parliament was orders of magnitude worse than just social media manipulation.
It was actually breaking into the systems and causing damage which cost money to repair, such as hiring software specialists.

It's like the difference between e.g. someone manipulating opinion against NatWest Bank vs someone hacking account details.

Russia is continually trying to inflame anti-Muslim feeling in Germany by running scare stories and fake news on German social media. That's not harmless.
German politicians are very anxious about Russia interfering in their elections, trying to boost the far right and create instability.
Putin has a grudge against Merkel, for supporting sanctions against Russia and he has a history of settling scores. He had a grudge against Clinton for criticising how his election is Russia was conducted, which was one reason for his support of Trump.

So far, the hard right anti-immigrant AfD has only managed 12-13% nationally, so about UKIP levels.
Merkel is still popular and her CDU / CSU is far ahead in the polls.
The election under PR will produce a coalition of some sort as always, but not including the AfD.

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2017 02:07

Labour & NHS

Consider these 2 polls:

  1. YouGov January poll on "which party do you trust most on the NHS"
    28% - Labour
    20% - Tories

  2. Comres January poll on "who would do a better job at managing the NHS this winter”
    31% - Jeremy Corbyn & Labour
    43% - Theresa May & Conservatives

Apparently very different results in the same month
BUT
One obvious difference is that YouGov just asked about party whereas the ComRes question coupled party with leader

Voters don't particularly adore TMay, but few of them would trust Corbyn even with the NHS.
Other polls have also indicated that Corbyn is much more unpopular than Labour.

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