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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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ElenaGreco123 · 15/01/2017 19:31

math Do you only read in English? I am only asking because the English press cares not a hoot about Europe, so it is hard to pick up any news on "the rising tide of evidence that an authoritarian government has been funding and fomenting the rise of far right ideology in Europe".

These are the ones I can remember from the past few months (my memory is like a sieve) and I could find in English:

Have a look at what happened in Montenegro, this was actually reported here. There were more lurid details and evidence in the local press. www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/montenegro-investigating-russia-alleged-election-coup-plot

Hungary is a staunch ally of Putin and the Russians still arm far-right groups against the government there. A detective was shot when he tried to enter a property with a warrant www.nytimes.com/2016/12/24/world/europe/intent-on-unsettling-eu-russia-taps-foot-soldiers-from-the-fringe.html?_r=0

Churchill was right about how the Balkans had too much history (to paraphrase). DH told me about this news last month, but at the time I thought it was an urban legend:
'Chocolategate' sours ties between Croatia, Serbia www.newindianexpress.com/world/2016/dec/09/chocolategate-sours-ties-between-croatia-serbia-1547321.html

woman12345 · 15/01/2017 19:43

Shock ElenaGreco123 And you're right, seldom reported.
I do remember this:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/russia-calls-foul-scottish-referendum

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 19:47

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russian-hackers-tried-to-disrupt-uk-general-election-security-sources-say-a7329406.html
Russian hackers tried to disrupt UK general election, security sources say

GCHQ uncovered the first known plot to target the British political system

From Sept 2016.

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mathanxiety · 15/01/2017 19:54

www.bbc.com/news/business-38568310 - Wrt Mifid 2.
Rather arcane stuff here, but the conclusion seems to be that no matter how much in line the City manages to get itself with EU regs, political considerations will ultimately decide its fate.

On another note - are we sure Arlene Foster has resigned?
I find no mention of this online - plenty of 'pressure piles on Foster to resign' hits though. Plus one petition.

woman12345 · 15/01/2017 20:00

Well........and the Zinoviev letter 1924, which was supposed to be a fake.

Hasn't this gone on for as long as men decided they liked power?
And pre the Louise Mensch twitter feed, we didn't know?

If our constitutional houses are in order, shouldn't foreign skulduggery be an irrelevance?

Again, it's obviously becoming an issue because Britain is having a breakdown and the Syrian and international refugees have been used to create an internal EU crisis.

Knowing that Putin is a Machiavellian git is a given. Acting wisely to strengthen or at least maintain the integrity of our British and EU constitutions is the defence.

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2017 20:01

I don't even want to think about Sterling tomorrow.

May seems to be aiming for parity with the dollar and full blown Sterling crisis.

TuckersBadLuck · 15/01/2017 20:07

Any full-blown Sterling crisis will have to wait until after the A50 case is decided. That bit of hope is providing some sort of a floor at the moment I think.

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2017 20:10

That's what we have to look forward to.

mathanxiety · 15/01/2017 20:21

Weird how all of this shit only hit the fan a year later, RTB.

On reading through the piece linked, it appears there was no actual interference, but some hacker group 'were looking at' UK government department networks. Is this the same thing as disrupting an election?

It's a bit disingenuous to use the phrase 'first known plot'.

...........
From the Bloomberg link:
'May will hope to eventually line up a new free-trade partnership with the bloc, yet in the meantime leaving the EU’s single market and customs union risks making it costlier and more complicated for British exporters to trade with their biggest market. It may also force banks to carry out their threats to move jobs from London to the continent to ensure they maintain access to it.

Still, staying in the customs union would prevent the U.K. from lining up free-trade pacts with non-EU countries such as the U.S. and China. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson returned from a trip to the U.S. last week saying he’d been told President-elect Donald Trump’s administration will want a fast trade pact with Britain.'

Seems thy have decided to jump and not look back, possibly on the basis of a handshake in New York.

woman12345 · 15/01/2017 20:56

Pound to Euro Exchange Rate Forecast for Next Five Days: Eyes on 1.128 Shock

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 20:56

Its as accurate or 'disingenuous' to say it definitely wasn't too though. We simply don't know. Its in the press and it predates the US election which suggests that your assertion that the Russians didn't interfere here is at least questionable.

It was said throughout the referendum that a Leave result would be in Putin's interest so this fear was lurking in the background somehow. Then there was all the Russian ships that just happened to sail down the channel. And there have been Russian infringements of British Airspace for a number of years on numerous occasions.

Whilst I do get what you are saying about the need to be sceptical I also think that you are perhaps going too far the other way.

There has been issues over Russia with regard to Sochi and the Winter Olympics that have been quite public and do highlight real ideological conflicts. There was even the Last Leg Team getting told by intelligence staff that they might have cause for concern.

I guess it depends on how far down the rabbit warren path you want to go and which rabbit warren you want to head down.

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Kaija · 15/01/2017 20:57

Math is is just the hacking that you are doubtful about, or do you also doubt Russia's coordinated use of social media?

ElenaGreco123 · 15/01/2017 20:57

possibly on the basis of a handshake in New York
Blimey, I would not trust them as far as I can throw.

Those links were all fascinating. Never heard of Fancy Bears before. Or the Russians criticising election procedures.

Heard about Mifid, but never realised it might save us. It would be deeply ironic, if voluntarily adopting "red tape" (copyright by UKIP) was our only way out of this mess.

ElenaGreco123 · 15/01/2017 21:02

Cyberwar Has Gone Public, and That's Dangerous
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-13/cyberwar-has-gone-public-and-that-s-dangerous

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 21:08

A couple of tweet storms about Trump which are worth reading:

Ilan Goldenberg ‏**@ilangoldenberg**
1. Trump team has nominated no deputies or under secretaries for key posts at State and DOD. But plenty of time to talk to foreign govts
2. During transition you should be putting in place the pieces to govern, but not governing yet
3. Instead they're starting the governing process which means interfering with current policy
4. And at the same time not putting in place the pieces you need to govern on January 20
5. You cannot move the federal govt without deputies or undersecretaries and they are so far behind on that

Ilan Goldenberg ‏**@ilangoldenberg**

1. Last week strong indicator of how Trump Natsec Team may function: Crazy NSC, feckless State, independent DOD, Leaky Intel Community
2. Clear from confirmation that views of nominees all over the map and not consistent with Trump
3. Trump won’t bother with detail of breaking ties leading to dysfunction and lack of coherence
4. Far behind on hiring Deputies and Undersecretaries, where most action happens on NatSec foreign policy, also indicates no coordination
5. And NSC appointees indicating there won’t be a traditional Deputies process to come to decisions and tee up things for POTUS
6. Instead NSC will just pursue own whacky rogue operations like Flynn-Kislyak 5 calls to coordinate Putin’s response to Obama sanctions
7. For State this means no power. Diplomats have no real assets or authorities outside of their word.
8. If everyone knows Tillerson isn’t speaking for POTUS, State is powerless
9. DOD (Department of Defence) different. Mattis has plenty of authority to spend big money and move military assets without POTUS approval.
10. So we may be putting more assets into Europe and strengthening NATO alliance even as Flynn/Bannon/Trump cuddling up to Putin
11. Trump is the only one with the authority to steer Mattis in a different direction and avoid this incoherence. Doubt he will do it.
12. At the same time, CIA will leak like a seive to undercut wacky NSC. The dossier may or may not have been the IC. Many had access.
13. But leaks on the 5 Flynn-Kislyak calls were almost certainly IC. And meant to undercut wacky NSC policy move
14. And telling our British and Israeli intel partners to protect their intel from Trump is another indicator.
15. Bottom line: this is going to be an incoherent mess.

Mattis is interesting. The Democrats ended up fast tracking his confirmation hearing. I was not aware of this but the US military take an oath to uphold the constitution rather than swear affiliation to the President.

Also interesting that domestically there is effectively a problem with chain of command and this means Trump may be effectively unable to action any policy he does have.

The press conference the other day was telling in just how Trump was saying he was going to do X on day one and Y on day two and so on as if he was in complete control in contrast to the rumours about how chaotic the transition was proving to be.

Louise Mensch thinks impeachment is simply a matter of timing:

Louise Mensch ‏**@LouiseMensch**

Also, if I am right about all this, there is the basic stupidity of it all. If I'm right the case @fbi already have is unarguable, w a/v.

Louise Mensch ‏**@LouiseMensch**
.@JamesEGraham no, they have all they need. They are waiting for orderly impeachment as arrest now would be called coup.

Yes its one of those upside down things again. Hoping that Mensch is correct and not talking bollocks for once in her life.

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GloriaGaynor · 15/01/2017 21:23

I have to agree with Math.

It's not that I don't think Putin is up to no good - I think he is corrupt, dangerous and quite likely although never proven to be actively murderous. He has incorporated KGB mentality and methods into government.

It's just that the recent allegations have been completely unverifiable and smacked to me of progaganda.

woman12345 · 15/01/2017 21:27

Bet there's a lot of strategising going on in the GOP on how to do it without completely blowing the doors off. (any further)
ElenaGreco123 enlightening and spooky article. RTB you mentioned a wiki leaks data dump which put Turkish activists in danger under Erdogun.

WifeofDarth · 15/01/2017 21:27

I think I just heard on radio news that May is being photographed by Annie Leibovitz for American Vogue's April fashion feature.
Please can someone reassure me that i'm suffering from hallucinations

GloriaGaynor · 15/01/2017 21:35

Was last week I think.

Christmaslight22 · 15/01/2017 21:46

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631783

WifeofDarth - seems you are not hallucinating...but seems this isn't necessarily a surprise - Mrs Thatcher was photographed for Vogue 4 times, Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama both did spreads.....so it seems like it's news because she is a powerful woman...or did I miss the spread in Vogue that David Cameron did?

SwedishEdith · 15/01/2017 21:49

Louise Mensch's later tweets in response to Carrie Johnson (?)

So @Mike_Pence is in on it, which I did not think possible, and @SpeakerRyan will be President. Fiat justitia ut pereat mundum

Carrie Johnson @johnson_carrie
"Of course not," Mike Pence tells @FoxNewsSunday about contacts between campaign & Russia. "This is all a distraction" the public sees thru.

WifeofDarth · 15/01/2017 21:56

Christmas well if Mrs T did it then it must be fine

lalalonglegs · 15/01/2017 22:00

Well, given Vogue's lead in times and May's current performance, she may well not be PM by the time they want to publish.

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