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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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SemiPermanent · 15/01/2017 11:16

Going into negotiations saying 'we're ok with clean break/hard Brexit - we can cope with that just fine' means that we're not going in as wounded animals.

I think it's a sensible strategy tbh.

As for Netherlands saying 'no deal unless we can dictate your taxes' - well, that would have to be no deal then. Out of the EU means being in charge of our own policies without being dictated to by others.

lalalonglegs · 15/01/2017 11:18

Patty - the Dutch general election is in exactly two months' time and Geert Wilders's party is polling well ahead of the other so that threat may not be as robust as it sounds.

squishysquirmy · 15/01/2017 11:24

But what if a large proportion of those on lower/middle incomes can't "cope with that just fine" SemiPermanent?
With imported goods becoming very expensive, and reduced exports resulting in job losses?

lalalonglegs · 15/01/2017 11:35

I'm also a bit puzzled by the Dutch insistence on anti-tax evasion measures as I believe syphoning profits through shell companies based in the Netherlands (as well as Ireland and Luxembourg) are one of the main ways that UK-based firms can "avoid" tax.

whatwouldrondo · 15/01/2017 11:38

Semi permanent And a shrinking in the only parts of the economy that are successful in world markets due to loss of the EU financial passport and the impact on the science and Tech sector? Thousands of jobs lost, not just in the city but back office functions across the country and in the service economy that exists on the back of those jobs? I know many people and businesses who are actively planning for that eventuality, including my own family. I can assure you that my community will be wounded animals in the event of a hard Brexit. I know some argue that we have too great a reliance on the financial sector and its EU related sources of competitiveness in global markets but you don't address that issue by hobbling your source of competitive advantage before you have developed new ones. I think shooting yourself in the foot is the very definition of being a wounded animal and the EU know it, hence Berners emphasis on the issues thrown up by the financial sector in recent meetings. As the select committee have highlighted this is a major issue that needs to be exposed to democratic process and pragmatism, not leave us at the mercy of a few dogma driven idiots politicians with no appreciation of the realities of international trade.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 11:43

So you want no deal for the sake of British pride rather than good international will and the wider best interests of the country.

That also demonstrates a lack of understanding of how trade deals and needs work

I guess we are headed for queues at Dover and the army on the streets type Brexit then.

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ElenaGreco123 · 15/01/2017 11:43

Who do we think leads the sensible wing of the Labour party? Who should I write to? Tom Watson? Yvette Cooper? Who else? We need to put pressure on them.

It has got to the stage where even my lovely but not too ambitious MP is in the shadow cabinet.

RubyPumps · 15/01/2017 11:44

Any views on how the expected outcome of Supreme Court ruling (later this week??) might impact May's plans?

SemiPermanent · 15/01/2017 11:48

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
I'm saying that if UK goes into negotiations with a credible analysis of how we could if it came to it manage with hard Brexit, then we are not opening negotiations by throwing ourselves prostrate at their mercy.

From there, the negotiators on both sides can give/offer deals etc in the best interests of both sides.

I would have thought that was obvious.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 11:50

Waaaahhh waaahhhh waaaahhhh the big bullies won't do exactly what I tell them to do and are being mean by having the nerve to stick up for themselves.

Waaaahhh waaahhhh now I'm finding myself totally ostracised from the big kids and no one wants to play with me any more apart from the little kids and the really nasty shits who will now beat the crap out of me as I've got no protection from my former mates.

Seriously. This is Brexit and the British mentality.

We are moronic.

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PattyPenguin · 15/01/2017 11:51

"...a credible analysis of how we could if it came to it manage with hard Brexit.."

I would love to see one of those. I haven't seen one yet.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 11:51

Its cutting your nose off to spite your face Semi.

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Lico · 15/01/2017 11:51

Rumours:
Macron seen holding hands with Gallet (president of ENA; ENA is an elitist French Grande Ecole which selects and trains senior French officials). Brigitte , 24 years his senior, might just be a façade. If this is true, it will be a shame; he should have come out earlier because , no doubt, the media and opponents will use this to discredit his honesty.
*

Objet: TR : Rumeurs......

Date: 14 janvier 2017 09:40:58 UTC+

konfidentiel kommandantur

Bon, vu que l'info va fatalement tomber d'ici mai 2017, je vous en donne la primeur : Macron est un gay honteux, il n'est avec sa cougar Brigitte que pour la façade. Pour de vrai, il est plus ou moins en couple avec Matthieu Gallet, président de l'INA, ainsi que des rumeurs le disent depuis des mois.
Comment je le sais ?
Sans dévoiler ma source principale, disons que je tiens l'histoire d'un conseiller politique haut placé, qui la tient lui-même de Pierre Charon, lequel est un homme de réseaux proche de Sarkozy, discret et peu connu du grand public mais au courant de tout.

C'était il y a quelques semaines. Charon apprend par un membre de la rédaction de Closer que ce magazine s'apprête à sortir en Une une photo (volée, bien sûr) pleine page de Macron et Gallet se promenant en forêt, main dans la main. Avec cette légende : "Moment de tendresse"...
Charon en informe l'équipe de Sarko, qui décide d'empêcher Closer de publier l'info. En tout cas tant que Macron ne s'est pas déclaré candidat à la présidentielle : ça pourra servir plus tard. En attendant, vu qu'il emmerde Hollande et Valls, on va le ménager.
Et c'est effectivement ce qui se passe : les réseaux sarkozystes s'activent et font discrètement mais efficacement pression sur les actionnaires de Closer pour les ramener à la raison. Différez cette publication, sinon on fera tout pour vous emmerder. Closer obtempère vite, et l'info passe donc finalement à la trappe.

Suite à quoi, Charon appelle Macron et lui raconte l'histoire, et ce à quoi il a échappé. Le bel Emmanuel écoute bouche bée, sans commenter. Puis, estomaqué et assommé, il conclut d'un simple "Je vous remercie beaucoup. Vous êtes un vrai républicain".
Et voilà le travail [http://voxpopulo.com/ow_userfiles/plugins/smileys/smileys/smiling.gif]

N.B1 : pour les bien-pensants : je me contrefous que Macron soit gay, chacun fait ce qu'il veut de son coeur et de son cul. Je me pose juste une question : un mec qui truque les cartes en s'affichant hétéro tout en n'ayant pas le courage d'assumer sa vie privée peut-il avoir avoir le courage et l'honnêteté nécessaires pour diriger le pays ?
N.B2: je ne crains pas le procès, mes sources sont incontestables, tant du côté politique que presse. La photo Macron/Gallet existe, la rédac de Closer peut témoigner.

[https://media.8ch.net/file_store/thumb/79f3174429d2f92a006c858eec84996cf12d24f9bd27e4c9372540530ef4d795.jpg][https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9jTLiGcxLW_bAPDQ8rGPzmG0QXHjZo6kXBefhbdSIuxnblmVjAw]

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 11:58

Oh jesus, journalist Micheal Gove has got the first interview with Donald Trump for the Times. To be released at 10pm

There was me thinking he was an MP. Silly me.

I think we all know where this is headed. Suck up to Trump, get an interview whilst other government officials are giving the finger to the EU and threatening a new economic model for this country in the name of sovereignty and patriotism.

Fucks sake. The 51st State.

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RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 12:01

Lico would that really put off French voters? I thought there was a different approach to sex scandals in France than the UK.

That also sounds a lot like Kompromat. Of course its not, is it.

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RedToothBrush · 15/01/2017 12:01

Lico would that really put off French voters? I thought there was a different approach to sex scandals in France than the UK.

That also sounds a lot like Kompromat. Of course its not, is it.

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InformalRoman · 15/01/2017 12:03

DM reporting that Trump's first meeting with a foreign leader will be with Putin.

SemiPermanent · 15/01/2017 12:04

*Waaaahhh waaahhhh waaaahhhh the big bullies won't do exactly what I tell them to do and are being mean by having the nerve to stick up for themselves.

Waaaahhh waaahhhh now I'm finding myself totally ostracised from the big kids and no one wants to play with me any more apart from the little kids and the really nasty shits who will now beat the crap out of me as I've got no protection from my former mates.*

Yes.
That's exactly what I said.
Confused

birdybirdywoofwoof · 15/01/2017 12:05

Michael Gove? Seriously?

ffs

whatwouldrondo · 15/01/2017 12:12

Semi I was involved in major negotiations for over twenty years, even got trained by some expensive US guru. Going into a negotiation thumbing your nose at the other side or approaching it like a game of poker is the stuff of the schoolyard not the negotiating table. It is all about identifying and opening up opportunities for mutual benefit whilst leveraging your sources of power and you can be sure that Berners is doing his homework on both those fronts. He is not sitting alone in his office listening only to what he wants to hear, and being influenced by the likes of Gove and JRM, those fine examples of international trade experts.....

ManonLescaut · 15/01/2017 12:13

I'm saying that if UK goes into negotiations with a credible analysis of how we could if it came to it manage with hard Brexit, then we are not opening negotiations by throwing ourselves prostrate at their mercy

It doesn't exist. Anyone with half a brain knows hard Brexit is economic suicide. The EU know it, the markets know it, that's why Sterling plunges every time it's mentioned.

Pretending you're not wounded when everyone can see the blood leaking away is pointless.

RubyPumps · 15/01/2017 12:34

Anyone with half a brain knows hard Brexit is economic suicide. The EU know it, the markets know it, that's why Sterling plunges every time it's mentioned.

Yep. Maybe most worryingly, I also think May knows it. Two late Friday / Saturday Brexit leaks conveniently coinciding with forex market closures. OK, this may minimise immediately shock-swing but GBPUSD will surely be below 1.20 when it reopens.

Seriously, you could not make this shit up. Sociopathic-grade arrogance and ignorance dressed up as "patriotism". Grotesque and embarrassing.

StripeyMonkey1 · 15/01/2017 13:15

Anyone with half a brain knows hard Brexit is economic suicide. The EU know it, the markets know it, that's why Sterling plunges every time it's mentioned.

Yes, true. The whole Brexit debacle is a reckless gamble for little possible gain.

I do think that the Dutch position on UK tax avoidance is relevant, but it does also show that EU countries don't want a low tax, ultraliberal UK. This is our bargaining chip. Hard Brexit would screw over our economy and would force us to become ultra free trade and low social protection (or alternatively to try to retain our protections and to go bankrupt). Neither is good for the EU. Both are also awful for the UK, but heh.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 15/01/2017 13:28

Red yes it will put off some french voters.
Having an affair is ok, it happens. Being gay is ..... not acceptable.

woman12345 · 15/01/2017 13:44

Damn, had high hopes for Macron. We need to get some more wins: Austria, Richmond and Sunderland so far!

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