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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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woman12345 · 14/01/2017 17:07

And in Scotland it was the majority who won the union vote! But the union voice is no where to be heard, especially in labour, even though Gordon Brown was brought out to give storming speeches at the end of the independence campaign which might have helped swing it.

Maybe like all the malarkey we're going through, Scotland has to go through a period of this, like we do with the right in various degrees to come out the other side?

Like the 40 years of bellyaching that went on about EU culminating in referendum result, the SNP have been bubbling under for a good 50 years or more.

Politics, like economical cycles goes through different phases.
Or, democracy just ended in the west and we forgot to notice! Shock

woman12345 · 14/01/2017 17:08

no where to be heard now, especially in labour

Motheroffourdragons · 14/01/2017 17:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

InformalRoman · 14/01/2017 17:37

Michel Barnier has corrected the Guardian over its article "EU negotiator wants 'special' deal over access to City post-Brexit" - he tweeted:

When asked on equivalence I said: EU would need special vigilance on financial stability risk, not special deal to access the City @guardian

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2017 18:08

But that means something quite different !

https://brusselsdiplomatic.com/2017/01/14/barnier-argues-with-guardian/

A language problem / mistranslation ?
Some prominent EU figures think they speak several foreign languages .... but in practice not with the nuances of their native one.
This is why when it comes down to official negotiations, whether EU, UN etc, it is usually with professional interpreters to avoid misunderstandings. The EU would be sensible, not awkward, not to conduct the Brexit negotiations in English.

woman12345 · 14/01/2017 19:06

Good organisation going on in US for ACA fightback, targeting 5, so far, Republican senators who have broken away from GOP.
"We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

woman12345 · 14/01/2017 19:26

Timely film in production about holocaust denier David Irving's legal and professional defeat and fake news anti semitism.
www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jan/14/deborah-lipstadt-interview-denial

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 19:50

Helen Lewis ‏**@helenlewis**
Tristram Hunt quits: worth re-reading his essay from last week's NS for a clue on why. On Labour's culture problem:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2017/01/voting-isnt-just-about-economics-win-left-must-address-new-cultural-divides

Helen Lewis ‏**@helenlewis**

Seeing as @stellacreasy is getting it in the neck for mentioning Mrs Brown's Boys, I want to re-iterate this (from 2014)

As with Mad Men before it, Girls holds an importance for columnists and writers of trend pieces which far outstrips its reach. The third series premiere in January was watched by 1.1million viewers in America. (To put that in perspective, the Christmas special of the BBC's cross dressing Irish sitcom Mrs Brown Boys was watched by 9.4 million. And when did you ever read a think-piece about Mrs Brown's Boys?)

The lack of thinkpieces on what is currently the most popular sitcom on British TV is evidence of a big cultural divide.
It's a sitcom with a fairly old school drag performance at its heart. Yet hot takes came there none, because op-ed writers don't watch it.

The Upshot mapped the viewership of US TV shows. Look at the difference between the Daily Show & Duck Dynasty.
See this NYT piece
They're pretty much opposites. Here's a show popular with black audiences (101 & Park)
There's loads more like this. It's interesting because you can see various cultural divides literally mapped

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RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 20:03

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/netherlands-brexit-tax-avoidance-trade-deal-lodewijk-asscher-theresa-may-conservatives-a7527656.html?utm_content=buffere7554&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Netherlands will block post Brexit trade deal if UK doesn't 'firmly tackle' tax avoidance, says deputy PM

The deputy prime minister of the Netherlands has said his country will block any post-Brexit EU trade deal with the UK unless it can agree on “firmly tackling” tax avoidance.

Britain Elects @britainelects
On who would do a better job at managing the NHS this winter:
T. May & the Tories: 43%
J. Corbyn & Labour: 31%
(via ComRes / 11 - 13 Jan)

OUCH. SCREWED.

Lodewijk Asscher, leader of the Dutch Labour party, fears a “race to the bottom” led by a British Conservative government, which would have negative ramifications across Europe.

This is reminiscent of the fears of many Remain campaigners, who believe the government could try toentice businesses to the UK after EU withdrawal by cutting taxes and regulation.

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RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 20:06

oops post fail. britian elects thing should be after quote

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BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2017 20:09

Woman12345 Maybe Trumpers will join too Wink
Some Trump voters expected ACA (Affordable Care Act) to remain, when they voted to end "Obamacare"

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2017 20:51

Denmark, normally a close ally, is also against a special cake deal for the UK:

www.businessinsider.de/denmark-brexit-talks-eu-britain-theresa-may-article-50-2016-11?r=UK&IR=T

I heard that Denmark is among EU countries who might block a deal unless this includes an undertaking from the UK not to become a tax haven,
by which they mean that the UK would have to promise that corporation tax would not go below a particular rate.
That would probably scupper a deal - May would be unlikely to agree.

UK corporation tax is currently only 17%, compared to 34% and 30% for France and Germany respectively.

The steady reduction in corporation tax (started by Brown) is part of a long-term rebalancing of the tax burden from companies to individuals.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2017 20:57

red - or anyone - Question:
There's an ft btl comment (which I can't find now) that David Davis implied he would as a worst case accept a "scorched earth" outcome for the financial services industry - provided most of the lost jobs go to the USA and not to the EU. Hmm

Did he actually make such a statement ?

ElenaGreco123 · 14/01/2017 21:04

Thank you for posting the Brexit Committee report today. I was really stuck on what to write in my nagging letter to my MP about article 50 and this really helped.

prettybird · 14/01/2017 21:16

Scotland isn't a one party state - that sort of statement demeans the democracy that we do have. The Scottish Government is currently a minority administration (although with the Greens, there is a majority in favour of independence). There is nothing stopping people voting for parties other than the SNP unlike in a one party state - all they have to do is appeal to the electorate - something that Labour in particular has been failing to do, hence why they are now the 3rd party in the Scottish Parliament, a sad slide from the former largest party Hmm.

Interestingly, the Facebook community "Labour for Scottish Independence" is apparently growing its "likes" fast! although given that people "like" Britain First", that in itself isn't saying much Wink

During the Indyref, one of the major planks of the No campaign was that the only way we could guarantee remaining in the EU was if we voted No. I had a friendly argument with one of my close friends, with me pointing out we were more at risk if we remained in the UK. She and her dh voted No but I did extract a promise from her that if what I predicted did come to pass, she would be campaigning for Independence at the next Indyref. She has said she - and her dh and his sons - are standing by that promise Smile She remains a Labour supporter but won't vote for them for the moment (although she has liked that Facebook community Wink)

I also came across Poles while out canvassing who had been told by Better Together campaigners, they'd be sent straight home, so that was why they were going to vote No Angry

Kaija · 14/01/2017 21:18

Just read that Arron Banks article in the New European. My expectations were very low, but it fell well short of them. I don't know what the New European are playing at with this, but completely agree with Red that it was a spectacular misjudgment.

I would be all for some serious articles on positive outcomes of Brexit in the New European, but this was entirely devoid of any hint as to the purpose or benefit of Brexit beyond "cutting the establishment off at the knees". Instead it was full of tired personal insults about remainers: Ivan Rogers is part of a "clique of tedious self-regarding bores", Ken Clarke is a "dinosaur", Peter Mandelson is "slimy", Mark Carney "oozes" and Jolyon Maugham is a "smarmy lawyer". It also says with a straight face of Trump's administration that it "really is trying to drain the swamp". It finished with the line "We have to bring the American Revolution closer to home". So there you have it.

I'd hazard a guess from the style that Isabel Oakeshott or someone similar did the actual writing.

The most interesting thing was the biography printed underneath. Like Farage with his schoolboy fascism, Banks clearly started out as he meant to go on: he was expelled from his private school for selling lead stolen from roofs. What larks.

I would have a lot more respect for the New European if they had partnered it with a piece, as red suggests, on the language of propaganda, specifically referencing devices like those used in the article. This was nasty, crass stuff, and there is too much of it about.

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 22:01

Sunday Times Lead:

Hard Brexit. Leave Single Market and Customs Union. Want Transitional Deal.

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.
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RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 22:06

Times also reporting that Trump wants a Putin Summit in Reykjavik with byline about how the British are afraid he will leak British secrets to the Russians.

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woman12345 · 14/01/2017 22:07

I like Mrs Brown's Boys, really! I've seen some blame games about satire like the Daily Show being to blame too. Like them both, or did like Jon Stewart and Steve Colbert when they were on.
BigChoc is ACA different from Obamacare?

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 22:10

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/nick-clegg-theresa-may-norway-style-trade-deal-brexit-eu?CMP=twt_gu
Nick Clegg says May should go for Norway-style trade deal
Former Liberal Democrat leader wants revived Efta arrangement that avoids perils of a hard Brexit

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lalalonglegs · 14/01/2017 22:11

Oh Lord, Tim Shipman seems to know what he is talking about when it comes to which direction the wind is blowing on Brexit. Almost six months on and still I don't understand May's nihilism about this. Our politicians have all but deserted the 48%; the House of Lords and the courts seem to be our only hope.

woman12345 · 14/01/2017 22:17

And brave Gina Miller. Tories and momentum are running scared of thugs, with one MP. Who's funding skint UKIP now? Is Banks that rich or has he other friends? Hmm

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2017 22:17

Lets cut immigration! Another target.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/14/corrupt-money-crept-britain-property-kleptocrats?CMP=twt_gu
The dark side of Britain’s gold rush: how corruption crept into our suburbs

Oo how funny. A story that mentions immigrants, money laundering and Russia.

Who wants Brexit again?

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GloriaGaynor · 14/01/2017 22:18

Sterling's goin dahn.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2017 22:19

Woman ACA (Affordable Care Act) is the proper name for Obamacare.
Hence those who voted Trump to end Obamacre, but wanted to keep ACA .... Grin were rather misinformed.