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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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Kaija · 13/01/2017 09:41

Tweet from Robert Peston:

.@TristramHuntMP to be director of V&A, I have learned, triggering by election in Stoke-on-Trent Central

!

lalalonglegs · 13/01/2017 09:45

Blimey, he was seen as a possible Labour leader a few months ago. The moderates have clearly shut up but they're not putting up.

woman12345 · 13/01/2017 09:49

There's a huge strength of unrepresented anti-Brexit feeling which at the moment has nowhere to go. Kaija Rather than waiting for a pro Remain party to sort themselves out, maybe the electorate is just going to appoint lib dems official opposition? Corbyn's toast.

unicornsIlovethem · 13/01/2017 09:49

I note Tristram Hunt's seat is a marginal - is that Lab/Con or are UKIP in the mix too?

unicornsIlovethem · 13/01/2017 09:53

Just seen - stoke central
Lab - 12,220 votes
UKIP - 7041 votes
Conservative - 7008 votes.

Lib dems were second in 2010 with 7039 votes

High proportion of leave voters - almost 2/3.

lalalonglegs · 13/01/2017 09:54

unicorns - it was Lab 12220; UKIP 7041; Con 7008; Ind 2000-odd; LD 1296.

Kaija · 13/01/2017 09:57

I'm remembering John Harris' video from Stoke pre-ref and thinking that UKIP will be getting very excited about this one.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/14/labour-supporters-brexit-stoke-on-trent-eu-referendum-video

lalalonglegs · 13/01/2017 09:58

Interesting that LD finished second in 2010 - I imagine they were surfing the Clegg's debate popularity at the time. I wonder how recoverable that vote is.

My husband was brought up near Stoke; I think it could be a very low by-election turnout, it is almost the definition of a left-behind area, it's needed investment for decades.

Kaija · 13/01/2017 10:02

Was wondering the same Lala.

missmoon · 13/01/2017 10:05

If it's a three-way marginal in a Leave voting area, with potentially the LD recovering to come second again, it could be very interesting. Will the other three parties split the Leave vote?

lalalonglegs · 13/01/2017 10:07

It looks as if it will be another busy month for the Attorney General: two more Brexit court cases are to be launched. One is Jolyon Maugham's in Ireland to get a ruling on the reversibility of A50; the other is in the English High Court requires a ruling on whether the UK has to leave the EEA (Gdn report, phone refusing to paste link).

TheNorthRemembers · 13/01/2017 10:41

Re: Sunderland Sandhill By-election
There are literally no UKIP councillors in Sunderland.

woman12345 · 13/01/2017 11:05

Grin north

Kaija · 13/01/2017 11:09

Just seen that the Stoke on Trent seat is due to disappear with the boundary changes.

NotDavidTennant · 13/01/2017 11:09

It's worth noting that Stoke Central is one of the seats that's set to go in the up-coming boundary reforms. If I was Tristran Hunt I don't think I would waste my time trying to get selected for a new seat given the current climate in the Labour party.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 13/01/2017 11:12

Referendum result signalled the slow demise of labour. This is another nail in its coffin.

woman12345 · 13/01/2017 11:27

Securing The Rights of EU Citizens. Join us in this Webinar where we discuss the campaign to secure the right to remain for EU citizens in the UK before Article 50 is triggered. This is a campaign that is gathering pace and gaining traction app.webinarjam.net/register/20480/723ccbf6c6

SemiPermanent · 13/01/2017 11:48

I think there's a bit too much being read into a switch to Lib Dem being pro-Remain votes at times.
I'm a Leave voter, yet I would vote Lib Dem over Labour at the moment - I suspect there's quite a few like me in former Labour strongholds at the mo.

Kaija · 13/01/2017 11:54

If they're picking up Leavers' votes (and not just Bregretters') as well that is amazing. Really might be a Lib Dem Fightback...

HobbitTankard · 13/01/2017 11:54

Yes in some ways it is the traditional protest vote of a normally labour voter. Plus the normal tactical vote of pessimistic Tories.

TheNorthRemembers · 13/01/2017 11:59

Any Labour MP who is actually suitable for any other work is clearly job hunting. We'll be left with Corbyn forever...
Am very worried about Stoke. I have family there, too.

whatwouldrondo · 13/01/2017 12:17

The switch from Labour to Libdem in Richmond, which is what won it for them just as much as enlisting the Tory Remain vote, was most definitely anti Brexit. It was a good Labour candidate who would have normally carried the Labour voters, who around here tend to be die hard and principled as manifested by the fact of having stuck by the Labour Party though they have never had a hope in the constituency, and have often had hopeless candidates too. The fact that they fielded a candidate in the face of pressure from the More in Common campaign was testament to that. From the doorstep and telephone feedback it was a vote against Brexit not a vote against the Labour candidate and party.

whatwouldrondo · 13/01/2017 12:23

Going back to the Telegraph and BBC headlines on what was said by the Oxford man in charge of their response to Brexit, this is the actual source, the select committee hearing. If you don't have a spare half hour the first question asks for a one sentence response about the impact of a hard Brexit, the answers are unequivocally negative, and his comment is that you will risk damaging one of the most valuable UK industries, the knowledge based economy. m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=7m40s&v=litNbIqiiAAt

whatwouldrondo · 13/01/2017 12:25

The V&A are making a political statement too?

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2017 12:31

This is the extraordinary bit about that council by-election last night.
This is how many people in the constituency that the ward is in who voted LD at the GE in 2015: 791. Less than voted LD in a single ward last night at local level - most of whom look to have NEVER voted LD before, locally or otherwise.

Stoke on Trent Central looks very interesting indeed.

Tristan Hunt was a controversial choice for Labour when selected. He was imposed by central Labour after late withdrawal of previous candidate on ill health grounds - the short list featured no local candidates. The seat has been held by Labour since the 1950s but Hunt has had the lowest ever majorities here (in part due to boundary changes).

The demographics of the area are noteworthy (figures from here correct in 2015):

54% in full time work, 14% in full time education, 13% Retired, 7% sick/disabled and 6% unemployed - High unemployment, high sick rate but also high number of students. (None of which usually tend to vote)

Private Home Ownership is relatively low with 16% Local Authority Owned 8% Housing Association and 19% privately renting.

Its 82% white British. There is a relatively high percentage of Asians - 9.7%

Age wise its a pretty even split: 16-24 18.7%, 25-34 18.2%, 35-54 32%, 55-64 13.2%, 65-74 9.4% and over 75 8.2% but perhaps younger than a lot of other constituencies.

And of course its coal mining country.

In 2015 the turnout at the GE was just under 50% which is particularly low. Turnout at the referendum for Stoke as a whole was a whopping 15% highest (one of the biggest differences between GE and ref) at 65%.

Noteworthy locally is Royal Stoke Hospital which has been in the news in the last week as being one of the hospital struggling most, falls just within the boundaries of Stoke Central. Its part of North Staffordshire NHS Trust which also runs County Hospital (formerly the notorious Stafford Hospital). Hospitals and social care are a particularly big deal locally.

Therefore the idea that the Conservatives might have any chance here, even with low turnout, is one I find pretty laughable. It just won't happen.

Perhaps to make matters worse for the Conservatives, Stoke City Council is currently a coalition between 16 Independents, 7 Conservatives and 1 UKIP candidate. They can't take the outsider role if they are directly responsible for cuts (particularly to social care).

Mike Smithson ‏**@MSmithsonPB** 1hr ago
Just got 50/1 on the LDs in Stoke Central with Ladbrokes. They've historical strength in the seat & were 2nd at GE2005 & GE2010

Mike Smithson ‏**@MSmithsonPB**
LD's now 8/1 with Ladbrokes on Stoke Central. That is in from 50/1 when betting opened 40 minutes ago.

Now I DON'T think the LDs will win here. But they are going to do better than expected I suspect. Not only does it fit their recent trends, but they are the only party who have not been tried locally if nothing else and with 16 Independents on the Council, you can kind of see the level of disillusionment with the Cons, Lab and even UKIP. They are the outsider - despite having been part of the coalition government - as the blame shifts back to squarely on the conservatives.

Labour have been hit with lots of 'sleeze' on a local level over a number of years which is why they lost control of the local council in the first place in 2015. 'Blairite' and 'Corbynite' factions really won't have helped the chances of rectifying public trust since then. This is why a local Labour candidate might still face problems unless they are a fresh face untainted by all the bullshit.

Given the number of Independents in Stoke at local level, you have to wonder about UKIP too though. If they were organised locally, you would expect them to perhaps do even better already. I know that there was huge problems with the BNP in Stoke at one point, and they were unbelievably shit when they did get limited election success locally which might taint UKIP more than people think. UKIP also had 2 councillors elected in 2015 but one has since gone independent I believe, which again suggests they are not as organised as they need to be to gain the traction and make the breakthrough.

Therefore I really would not be surprised if a local Independent was to stand, whether they might have a good chance of winning over and above any of the main parties. The desire is for a local representative, there is huge disillusionment with all the main parties, the local hospital has a massive ongoing crisis which perhaps locally will be seen to have followed on from the scandal at nearby former Stafford Hospital.

I do wonder if Brexit will actually be a secondary issue rather than the main one ultimately for that reason too. Of course the Supreme Court Ruling will have happened by the time of the by-election so that could fire up Kipper voters, but yeah. I can't help but think that motivation is less about positive support for UKIP and more a lot more about how crap politics have been in the eyes of people in Stoke for a very, very long time.

I think ultimately, Labour will probably retain the seat, with the Conservatives having a more disappointing performance than they would like, UKIP maybe running it close but not making as much headway as perhaps people will suggest and the LDs will have yet another big surge.

And god knows what will happen if you throw a good Local Independent Candidate with a decent reputation into the mix.

Poor Corbyn, he's going to be so busy fighting by-elections this year if the rumours of 'dozens' quitting are anything to go by. You have to wonder if he will have time for anything else (Andy Burnham going in Leigh and Steve Rotheram going in Liverpool Walton for mayor bids to come).

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