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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Kaija · 12/01/2017 22:31

Is anyone going to watch Question Time? I know it's a bad idea, but I'm feeling compelled...

HesterThrale · 12/01/2017 22:39

Kaija I just don't think I can bear it. In fact I haven't watched it for months. Used to.

Doesn't the Govt see anything illogical in this? Recruiting hundreds of GPs from the EU... Will we send them back as soon as we don't need them? Will they actually even want to come?
We'll galvanise our 'selfish nation' reputation.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/nhs-recruit-hundreds-gps-poland-lithuania-greece/amp/?client=safari

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 22:51

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-announce-council-north-bring-9613066
Labour to announce 'Council of the North' to bring jobs and growth back to Northern England

I think this is a positive move.

Hans de Vreij ‏*@hdevreij*
Dutch newspaper @telegraaf says it has spoken to a witness of Donald Trump's alleged sexual escapades in the Ritz Carlton. More tomorrow...

Witness? Eh?

Mike Smithson ‏**@MSmithsonPB**
LAST TIME in Sunderland Sandhill it was LAB 55%, UKIP 26%, CON 16%, LD 5%

Labour Win 2017 @LabourWin2017
Hearing that the result in Sandhill (Sunderland) close between Labour and Lib Dem. Would be a shock for @UKLabour to lose here.

Mike Smithson ‏**@MSmithsonPB**
If this is true it's sensational. LAB 51% ahead of LDs when seat last fought. I'm sceptical

Eh? What? No chance.

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RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 22:52

Britain Elects ‏*@britainelects* 3m
3 minutes ago

Liberal Democrat GAIN Sandhill (Sunderland) from Labour.

FUCCCKKKK!!!!!!!!!

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2017 22:54

QT sounds even more loathsome than usual: Banks & Gisela Stuart, a recipe for cold vomit.

The world can't take 8 4 years of Trump tweets on 24 hr news
Won't he ever stfu ? Angry

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.
RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 22:55

Britain Elects ‏*@britainelects*^
Sandhill (Sunderland) result:
LDEM: 45.0% (+41.5)
LAB: 25.0% (-29.9)
UKIP: 18.7% (-7.2)
CON: 10.0% (-5.7)
GRN: 1.3% (+1.3)

WOW

Am watching QT...

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Kaija · 12/01/2017 22:55

It's very bad already.

Kaija · 12/01/2017 22:56

Audience doing better than the panel so far

SnowmaggedonAgain · 12/01/2017 22:56

LibDems had gained parliamentary seat in Redcar for a germ.

I would not read too much into this beyond possible Scottish style decline of labour in the NE?

SnowmaggedonAgain · 12/01/2017 22:57

For a term! Apologies.

SwedishEdith · 12/01/2017 22:58

Wow @ the Sunderland vote.

I am not watching QT.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2017 23:00

If Britain Elects didn't brainfart, that's a phenomenal swing Lab to Lib, red
What sort of numbers were voting though ?

iwanttoridemybicycle · 12/01/2017 23:01

Aaron Banks is making me want to vomit

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 23:02

I don't think you can read too much BUT something has happened there. That's a HUGE swing, even with low turnouts.

The Copeland By-Election might produce a surprise result yet!

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2017 23:02

I mean was the swing 10s / 100s/ 1000s of people ?

SnowmaggedonAgain · 12/01/2017 23:04

Good question bigchoc, before any of us extrapolate it is council and what was the weather doing today? (I may be over sensitive on that last point!)

iwanttoridemybicycle · 12/01/2017 23:05

Just read in a guardian article that Banks and Nige went skinny dipping together to celebrate Farage retiring Confused

Kaija · 12/01/2017 23:10

Would like to see Lib Dem gains since last June laid out all together. Seems a very significant shift taken all together. However, I'm thinking as turnout tends to be low that this is an expression of the strength of feeling amongst those who are feeling unrepresented right now versus all those who can't be bothered to vote, rather than leavers or con/lab voters changing their minds.

Kaija · 12/01/2017 23:11

"Aaron Banks is making me want to vomit"

Yes, he does have a peculiarly disgusting quality.

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 23:12

Big Choc, the numbers are small but even with small numbers its significant.

This is the result history for the ward:

May 2016 result Lab 1229 UKIP 579 C 277 LD 90 Grn 59
May 2015 result Lab 2121 UKIP 1003 C 607 LD 135
May 2014 result Lab 1478 C 546 LD 230
May 2012 double vacancy Lab 1830/1424 C 459 LD 335
May 2011 double vacancy Lab 1783/1637 C 456/440 LD 241
May 2010 result Lab 2197 C 842 LD 778
May 2008 result Lab 1196 C 662 BNP 358 LD 327
May 2007 result Lab 1420 C 674 BNP 408
May 2006 result Lab 1033 C 577 LD 439 BNP 373
June 2004 result Lab 1515/1411/1238 C 894 BNP 530

The Lib Dems have effectively come from nowhere even is turnout is especially low.

That's quite a shift of traditional long term Labour votes changing behaviour.

It could be the local issue. It could be Brexit. It could be Corbyn.
Or all of them.

Either way. Voters are doing odd things here. Extremely odd things.

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CardinalSin · 12/01/2017 23:12

I can't bear to watch "Brexit Time" these days. I'm surprised Dimbleby consents to front such a horrifically biased set up. Unless he's a rabid Brexiteer, of course...

SwedishEdith · 12/01/2017 23:18

Britain Elects ‏*@britainelects* 3m3 minutes ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN Gade Valley (Three Rivers) from Conservative.

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 23:21

Britain Elects ‏*@britainelects*

Liberal Democrat GAIN Gade Valley (Three Rivers) from Conservative.
Gade Valley (Three Rivers) result:
LD: 60.9% (+24.0)
CON: 19.1% (-22.9)
LAB: 11.6% (-9.6)
UKIP: 6.7% (+6.7)
GRN: 1.8% (+1.8)

Mike Smithson has linked to a blog by a LD campaigner in Sunderland which might give an idea of what happened a bit more

jonathanwallace.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/labour-hits-panic-button-in-sunderland.html
It looks like psychologically people voted, when they thought that the opposing party had a shot at winning.

So yes look like a local cock up, but also suggests HUGE dissatisfaction in Labour and people want to jump ship if they can. They offered nothing positive.

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squishysquirmy · 12/01/2017 23:21

eurgh. Watching QT. Arron Banks trying to answer a question about the NHS with a smarmy moan about the aid budget.

Kaija · 12/01/2017 23:22

yup. grim.