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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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Thread gallery
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whatwouldrondo · 12/01/2017 15:45

DH had the BBC news channel on in the background during the Trump conference. When the CNN journalist got the flack from Trump , the BBC journalist looked visibly shaken and let slip a heartfelt "Thank God I am not the Washington correspondent" ....

No surprise to the US media who covered his campaign though who regularly found themselves made into the target for hate by him at his rallies.

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 15:47

Mother I was a bit naughty there, because I did not summarise the DT article. Basically, despite the title Professor Alistair Buchan actually says

  1. Oxford will be fine, no matter what.
  2. But if we replicated Erasmus and made it even bigger (and more expensive) with non-Europeans, we would be even better off.
Which in DT world means: "Brexit will be good for universities, Oxford’s new Head of Brexit strategy says".
Kaija · 12/01/2017 15:59

The attack on CNN combined with the refusal to take a question from them must be one of the most sinister things here. This is how you control the media by threatening and refusing access. What comes next?

Meanwhile, I recommend following Teen Vogue, who, presumably because they have nothing to lose, are a surprise source of hard-hitting articles on Trump.

ukusatoday · 12/01/2017 16:07

without being pedantic can i ask why trump is taking up so much space on an euref thread?

Kaija · 12/01/2017 16:09

We're drifting on the same current.

Mistigri · 12/01/2017 16:17

without being pedantic can i ask why trump is taking up so much space on an euref thread?

UK's relationship with the US pretty critical in the event of a hard brexit.

Plus, it's impossible to have a sensible conversation about Trump in the politics forum, which tends to get spammed to death by the Breitbart cut 'n' paste mob.

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 16:36

Theresa May to give her Brexit speech on Tuesday - Politics live
www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/12/gerard-coyne-launches-manifesto-in-unite-leadership-contest-politics-live

Cannot wait.

woman12345 · 12/01/2017 16:36

Southern rail passengers ticket strike action to support train strike, joined by Caroline Lucas.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/12/southern-rail-passengers-strike-self-respect

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 16:39

UK's relationship with the US pretty critical in the event of a hard brexit.
Quite. Boris was either very sweet or duplicitous being so happy about number status as trade partners with the US, when Trump made it quite clear he does not believe in the value of free trade.

lurkinghusband · 12/01/2017 16:57

Theresa May to give her Brexit speech on Tuesday

Cannot wait.

You don't have to.

"Brexit means brexit".

(Note to self to short sterling for Wednesday, and invest in more BitCoins).

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 17:12

Grin That will be a short speech.

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 17:26

without being pedantic can i ask why trump is taking up so much space on an euref thread?

Well Le Pen is currently sat in Trump Towers. The British Government have a policy even now of having nothing to do with her.

There are concerns that Russia will seek to undermine the EU this year with elections in France and Germany. Trump is liable to also try and stir things on that score. (See above about who is sat at Trump Towers).

Since of our own agenda setters has fingers in both the EU and US pie and he won't just disappear as much as I'd like Farage to.

Since the EU's reaction to Trump will be important to how they conduct relations with the Uk.

Since there is all this back of the queue/ front of the queue stuff regarding a trade deal with the US. And there is the possibly that Trump will try and exploit our desperation for new trade deals risking us making a deal that's not in our best interests.

Since how Trump handles the media, is important for everyone in terms of democracy and liberalism.

Plus loads more strands of over lapping issues seeing as this is a global world even if you happen to be an anti-globalist.

It all feeds into the same thing - what is going to happen in UK politics, what is causing that and why. The implications of Brexit are HUGE and that's entirely the point.

We try and keep it focused on how Trump affects the UK as much as possible, but I do genuinely think its impossible to discuss Brexit without talking about Trump too where relevant, especially since one of the arguments for Remain was about Russia's role and dominance in international politics.

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RedToothBrush · 12/01/2017 17:31

And tonight's council by-elections...

From Trump Towers back to lovely Sunderland! (It had to be this week didn't it?).

Houghton and Sunderland South
Lab
Its a proper working class / council estate type UKIP target area. The by-election is because the councillor has be disqualified for not turning up to a meeting for six months. Which is not good. This is therefore a bit of a test of how tempting UKIP are to regular Labour voters

I think it will stay Labour, but just how much headway UKIP make is what to look for.

Gade Valley, Hertfordshire
CON
Lib Dems have a strong presence in parts of the area. They currently hold 19 out of 39 seats on the local council - so winning here would give them overall control of the council.

Therefore, I'm sticking my neck out on this one. Its going Lib Dem or I'll eat Paddy's Hat.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2017 17:47

I could understand (not agree with) the motivation for a £1,000 levy on UNskilled workers
It would be to help UK unskilled workers become more competitive - it would only work as intended in the case of jobs that had to be done, couldn't be exported or replaced by imports (e.g. care workers) and it would presumably increase costs.

There really aren't many wc Brits who are prevented from becoming brain surgeons by immigrants.

However, the UK - in fact every country - normally wants to encourage immigration from people who would be net contributors, because only a minority are, calculated over their whole lifetime.
Most costs on average to the state are from the elderly.

Few EU immigrants bring in their grannies. In fact, they come already educated and tend to retire to their home country, whereas those from developing countries usually wish to settle permanently and to bring in their spouses and elderly dependents.

Kaija · 12/01/2017 17:47

I am actually quite surprised that nobody (Ben Bradshaw aside) has raised the probability of Russia's influence - via social media at least - on the EU referendum. We are too far down the road with evidence of Putin's interference elsewhere in Europe to consider this conspiracy theory territory: it just seems more likely than unlikely. Why would Putin have ignored this huge opportunity to destabilise the EU, while pursuing so many others? Or is it that we have just come to accept it as part of the virtual landscape now?

SnowmaggedonAgain · 12/01/2017 18:05

I was definitely paid by Putin..

Mistigri · 12/01/2017 18:08

French press reporting that the Trump transition team has denied any meeting with MLP. The people with MLP in the photo are Louis Aliot and Guido Lombardi, who is linked with the Italian Northern League and is a pal of Trump's.

MLP's still pretty unpopular in France: think she's taken more seriously by the Anglophone press than anywhere else. And the FN has been haemorraging elected councillors in recent months, due to their complete inability to get anything done once in office. The leadership is basically interested mainly in enriching themselves.

SnowmaggedonAgain · 12/01/2017 18:08

But seriously, The critical moment for me was Cameron returning from his negotiations with EU ( Sir Ivan wotsisname was involved it turns out.

Those people had more influence than the nefarious Putin, in my case at least.

Figmentofmyimagination · 12/01/2017 18:09

kaija yes - and don't you wonder whether any of the prominent leave backers are/were open to blackmail? I have been wondering this.

Apart from the benefits of destabilising the post war peace settlement (not a good enough reason for voting to remain in the EU, as I recall), Putin achieves some 'pay back' for having been called out over the Litvenienko assasination. Scary times.

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 18:10

Sunderland Sandhill by-election
Sunderland councillor loses seat after failing to attend a single meeting for six months www.sunderlandecho.com/our-region/sunderland/sunderland-councillor-loses-seat-after-failing-to-attend-a-single-meeting-for-six-months-1-8259792
Five-way fight for vacant council seat www.sunderlandecho.com/news/politics/five-way-fight-for-vacant-council-seat-1-8288086

Sadly I do not know anyone there to find out who was canvassing, but the candidates are:
Bryan George Foster (UKIP) - www.sunderlandecho.com/news/sunderland-ukip-candidate-quits-in-row-over-his-military-service-1-7141653 The local UKIP branch sounds particularly self-destructive even by their standards. There is more... They do not have a single councillor in Sunderland.
Helmut Izaks (Green) - no chance
Stephen Francis O'Brien (Liberal Democrat), - no chance
Gary Edward Waller (Labour) alumni.sunderland.ac.uk/new-design/pages/sa-c2015-waller-family - not sure about him
Gavin William Christopher Wilson (Conservative) - no chance

Read more at: www.sunderlandecho.com/news/politics/five-way-fight-for-vacant-council-seat-1-8288086

TheNorthRemembers · 12/01/2017 18:13

Arron Banks's current or previous wife is Russian, but that does not mean anything.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2017 18:17

A major reason why the broad centre ground is at such a loss is that we are used to combatting left and right separately
e.g. the centre and all the left would normally - in reasonable harmony - campaign against cuts to disability benefits.
Ditto centre and right were united in fiercely opposing e.g. the old USSR

We are far less able to form an alliance against the new populism, in which elements of the left and the hard right combine in a largely common cause against the "elite" - which seems to be the rest of us.

It may be Putin who is the catalyst, rather than Farage / Banks / Trump etc, because Putin is admired by both the far right and - for reasons of historical sympathy to the USSR - many elements on the left.

What we are seeing now is not just people on the left defending Putin, but I've read some even defending / justifying sleazy billionaire Trump and hard-hearted May, even Le Pen.

Kaija · 12/01/2017 18:20

Yes. Can't read anything into Banks' wife being Russian. He doesn't have the air of a man being blackmailed either. More like someone smashing things up for shits and giggles and to relieve the massive chip on his shoulder.

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