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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

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Thread gallery
5
ukusatoday · 11/01/2017 18:43

reporting the truth? come on! you cannot be that naive.
is this the phone hacking murdoch press we are talking about, and their equivalent in US?

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 19:00

'This is how democracies die' I don't know what to say to that, Red, it is true that shutting down traditional media was how it's worked before, but........all pre internet. I think that has and does change everything. We have post analogue media world, now and mud still sticks. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc
Totalitarianism has been fought and won in many previous media shut down states: South Africa, Germany USSR. Political battles can and are won without media support, but it doesn't help.
But it is without doubt, grotesque to see. Shaming to have children and young people witness this creature's behaviour.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 19:05

BBC Radio 4 earlier today. Audio clip

Ben Judah ‏*@b*_judah
1. Rumours have been circulating for months and dossier complied by ex-British intellignece has been circulating at least since October.
2. The ex-British intelligence officer, who compielled this whilst working on research for the opposition, is NOT the only source for this.
3. BBC heard from "member" of US intelligence that the head of East European intelligence service told him Russia had "kompromat" on Trump.
4. The BBC has heard from US intelligence - "there is more than one tape, in more than one place, with video and audio as well."

(Alleged Second Tape in St Petersburg)

4a. Nobody at the BBC has seen these tapes and this is from an anonymous intelligence agent but, BBC says, it us seen as credible from CIA.
5. BBC says that Congressional Republicans are looking at investigations and that Congressional Democrats are talking about impeachments.
6. BBC says former British intelligence officer was working first for a SuperPac supporting Jeb Bush and then an anonymous Democrat donors.

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joangray38 · 11/01/2017 19:08

Doesn't say much for our politicians/ security forces who knew about this ages ago but kept quiet - whilst he lied about everything that would come out about Clinton - but didn't . Even if he is impeached may will have to toady up to Pence / republicans if he isn't good luck May selling Trump / trade agreements to anyone with what he already admitted and has come out about him . .did they really think the republicans in any form were better than Clinton

lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 19:10

Arguably the phone hackers did report the truth, they just uncovered it in a very unethical way. While I agree our red-tops aren't a great source of pride, our other newspapers (and the BBC) can produce great investigative reports and news coverage. The BBC in particular has a policy of verifying stories with two sources before reporting (hence Laura Kuenssberg's frustration at not being able to find a second source for the spring scoop that the Queen supports Brexit). Usually the BBC is super-cautious - to the point of priggish - about reporting this sort of sleaze but I was struck by how much detail was given on PM this evening.

Re: can TM lean on the BBC? The timing is out for that as the then-Secretary for Culture, Media etc signed off its charter last year, iirc so it's10 years until it needs renewing and thumbscrews can be tightened. The new BBC board will be regulated by Ofcom which is independent of government so, apart from meeting the bigwigs at various dos, there's not a direct line from Downing St (or not a legitimate one).

lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 19:16

Sorry, my post took an age to load, others have already pointed out that BBC only uses multiple-source stories.

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 19:18

"mud still sticks."

Totally agree. He can throw around "Fake news" as much as he likes (as he's been advised to by Bannon, no doubt) but he will forever be associated be Russia. So the press need to keep going and on the attack.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 19:18

Could our politicians and security services intervene if they had something? That would be influence from another nation if it were public. Also could be seen as aggressive from Russia if we did. Who is to say they did not pass on info to the US?

Obama took May aside for a ten minute conversation when he came to Europe for the last time as President. Assumption and implication at the time it was about Brexit. Who knows really though?

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woman12345 · 11/01/2017 19:20

One press conference, he's not even in office yet and stock markets all over the shop.
www.marketwatch.com/story/wall-street-stocks-on-pause-as-investors-wait-for-cue-from-trump-2017-01-11

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 19:22

Oh, and did read on Twitter last night that the Russian story is to cover up for a Chinese money laundering story via property - all those empty Chinese ghost cities.

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 19:23

Is it all a bit Zinoviev lettery? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter

lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 19:29

I also thought it was interesting that Trump chose not to defame all the media outlets - which is his usual MO. Instead, he tried - however unattractively - to flatter those that did not run the story. It sounded to me like a very clumsy attempt to throw them a bone (see how nice I can be to you good guys, now look how I shout at and threaten the bad journos) in the hope of keeping them away from the story.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 19:31

Meanwhile back in Brexitland

Law and policy ‏*@Law*andpolicy
Breaking: Supreme Court will not be giving advance copies of A50 appeal decision - to government, or to anyone else.

SC confirmed today.

and

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham
Sir Keir Starmer unequivocal: we will put down amendments to the Article 50 Bill.

Did government ask for advance ruling.

What has Starmer got in mind.

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lalalonglegs · 11/01/2017 19:40

Yes, it was mentioned in Gdn today (I thought it was bloody brazen) in story that also claimed government would consider a 7-4 ruling against it a "victory of sorts" Hmm

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 22:41

I have been going SHIIIIITTT all night at this.

The Register @TheRegister
US media names ex-MI6 agent as source of the CNN/BuzzFeed dossier on Trump. UK media gets a D-Notice…

Then.

Henry Mance ‏**@henrymance**
BBC names the ex intelligence official despite D-notice asking British journalists not to

But no Henry. They didn't.

Kevin P ‏*@Kev*_2507
@henrymance it's been cancelled ( the d notice)

Reversal was in no way related to the fact it had already gone viral and was everywhere. It was beyond stupid and just was like when a super injunction hits twitter.

A Telegraph article was pulled over it though and has only just been reinstated in last half an hour. Was going to 404 when I looked earlier after seeing link on twitter.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/former-mi6-officer-produced-donald-trump-russian-dossier-terrified/

Just FUCKING HELL. Especially given what I said earlier today.

I'm spooked.

Seriously. What the bleeding hell is going on?

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Lico · 11/01/2017 22:52

It is really worrying indeed. DH thinks that Trump might be assassinated if he upsets Tge establishment too much..just watched Midsommer Murders..

On Macron, yes his wife is 24 years older and used to be his French teacherSmile. Macron is more of the same, usual path : Lycee Henri IV, Sciences PO and ENA (most French Government Officials and captains of industry go to these two Grandes Ecoles). Chirac, Hollande etc, etc...

TatianaLarina · 11/01/2017 22:57

Personally I think the British and Russian angle to this is bollocks.

This is inter US dirty tricks, implicating other countries. (I think the same is probably true of the hacking - Republican sympathisers within intelligence). It's standard practice to frame other countries so it can't be traced back to the source.

If that was a genuine British intelligence document I'm Katie Price.

Christopher Steele doesn't exist. (He sounds like a character from Austin Powers).

TatianaLarina · 11/01/2017 22:58

I'd say someone is going all out to bring down Trump asap.

Let's hope it works, eh? Wink

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 23:02

Was watching Goodfellas last week. Trump reminds me of the Joe Pesci character - unstable, unpredictable, doesn't have the real power. And was removed.

SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 23:06

"If that was a genuine British intelligence document"

It's not claimed to be official British intelligence though. But, I agree that Christopher Steels is probably not the source or, if is, is certainly not really called Christopher Steele (he's the This Morning doctor).

woman12345 · 11/01/2017 23:10

This is inter US dirty tricks, implicating other countries
I have no idea what to think, but it's why I mentioned the Zinoviev letter in which the Daily Mail, published what turned out to be a forged letter from the Soviets to Labour to upset election result in 1924. It's an old trick, if that does prove to be the case.
The markets were in turmoil today during that car crash of a press conference, capitalism needs stability which this egit does not bring.

iwanttoridemybicycle · 11/01/2017 23:15

I am mystified how he got a single vote never mind enough to win.

TatianaLarina · 11/01/2017 23:16

It's not claimed to be official British intelligence though

No it's not, quite rightly because it's clearly not.

I think he's a cross between Christopher Plummer and Remington Steele.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2017 23:46

It does not matter what is and what is not true really. It is what people believe that matters more.

Personally I think the British and Russian angle to this is bollocks.

This is inter US dirty tricks, implicating other countries. (I think the same is probably true of the hacking - Republican sympathisers within intelligence). It's standard practice to frame other countries so it can't be traced back to the source.

If that was a genuine British intelligence document I'm Katie Price.

Christopher Steele doesn't exist. (He sounds like a character from Austin Powers).

  1. The British Government issued a D-Notice this evening, now reversed to gag the British media so they must have played along with 'these inter US politics'. Therefore it is not just a US inter politics thing unless the US have the power to issue a D-Notice to the British Press.
  2. I don't disagree with the idea of doing strange things to hide the source. That said, this just seems like a cock up and leak that spirals unexpected out of control really rather than an orchestrated plan. A fair number of journalists have been offered the story previously. Part of it at least has been around since at least October.
  3. The official Russian Embassy in the UK have been tweeting some rather odd things, which seem to be aimed at the British and are rather, how can we put it? Goady?. Are you saying the Americans have hacked their account to do this, and the Russians haven't whispered anything about it?
  4. No has ever claimed its official British Intelligence.
  5. It doesn't matter what his real name is. His current identity is the one that matters at the moment though and the one he uses in his current life.

You know I don't know who is doing what and why.

BUT the British, the USA and the Russians are all playing silly buggers one way or another, whether it be official, unofficial, retired, still serving or a triple agent going by the name of a cartoon character. Who is supporting who and who is trying to knee cap who and who is trying to cover up what remains to be seen. We'll never know. It doesn't matter.

What we believe to be the truth is the battle for hearts and minds and that's what really counts.

There in lies the scary bit. It is a battle going on and we are all unwilling participants one way or another.

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SwedishEdith · 11/01/2017 23:54

richard fordVerified account
‏*@RFord4*
Downing Street rules out £1000 levy on EU skilled workers post Brexit - five hours after immigration minister raised idea - unprompted

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