to share with you the croudfund link for the new legal action to stop brexit

[MarieBurnham]

www.crowdjustice.org/case/brexit-for-the-100/

I've only given a tenner, but there are plenty of rich people (unless it's all stealth boasting about dipique candles) here, so we should be able to help.

It's currently at 18.507k and needs 70!

Post-truth indeed!

I suspect supermummy won't tell us about balloons and bananas.

Supermummy There was not one benefit I listed there that we would have had without the EU. Did you actually read the list?

You do realise that we have regulations as well - which we have chosen to have and can change if we dont like. Unlike EU legislation which we don't chose and can't change. Plus since when did we ever consent to have the EU regulating our lives? I don't remember a majority of the UK consenting to giving up our democracy.

the people decided it wasn't worth it anymore - by people I mean the majority of the UK electorate, thought it was self evident.

--------------------------------

I have heard that although Leave won if people were given a three way choice between -

1. EU membership with unlimited migration forever, no control of laws, no control of our money, unable to make trade deals with other countries and all the other controlling stuffs.
2. EEA style deal with unlimited migration forever, no control of laws, no control of our money, unable to make trade deals with other countries, all the other controlling stuffs and locked out of the room when all this is decided.
3. Clean break, control of boarders, control of laws, control of our money, ability to make trade deals with other countries and all the other fun stuffs.

Most people, by quite a way, would choose a clean break

I think the only certainly about staying in the EU or EEA is that we will be forever in the United States of Europe and will never be free again.

PS and all that stuff about toasters, kettles and vacuum cleaners.

and all that stuff about toasters, kettles and vacuum cleaners

I agree that there does seem to be a lot of regulations - but given that it is a massive trading body, it could be argued that regulations help make trade easier and help conformity.

But didn't the press and certain politicians do a great job of lying about EU regulations to the British public.

control of boarders, control of laws, control of our money, ability to make trade deals with other countries and all the other fun stuffs

A bigger trading block probably has more negotiating power than a small country like the UK.

Most laws are made in the UK.

The UK Government has a lot of control over our money. The EU contribution is a tiny fraction of UK public spending.

Control of our borders. Will be interesting to see how that pens out.

"Most people, by quite a way, would choose a clean break"

Even if it would cost them money? The evidence would suggest the opposite.

If you want to trade, there are rules attached, always. The freer the trade, the more rules you have to agree on with your trading partners. Otherwise you would be having to argue the terms and seek assurances for every deal you make, which means more bureaucracy and makes you an altogether less attractive prospect to do business with.

I am not saying either these directives are sensible or not. I am saying that we can regulate our own country we do not want regulation to be imposed upon us by diktat, we are not children.

EU Commission Regulation 2257/94 identifies certain restrictions for fruits that producers have to conform to in order to sell their produce within the EU The regulation states that bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature

Directive 2009/48 dictates that Balloons must have the safety warning that Adult supervision required. Keep inflated balloons from children. Discard broken balloons at once’ has been introduced in the standard EN 71-1 in 1998

Plus since when did we ever consent to have the EU regulating our lives? I don't remember a majority of the UK consenting to giving up our democracy.

^^ Quite.

So much is open to confusion, interpretation, twisting, I dont want more layers of this from the top down eu thanks.

I want to cut away as much as possible.

A bigger trading block probably has more negotiating power than a small country like the UK

Arf and the trade deal with Canada ( was it 7 years in the excruciating making) came within a whisker of falling through from a tiny place in Belgium. No thanks!

am not saying either these directives are sensible or not. I am saying that we can regulate our own country we do not want regulation to be imposed upon us by diktat, we are not children

Can you see why such a large trading body like the EU needs regulations within the countries of the EU to ensure everyone follows the same rules and standards?

If you make a toy within the EU, it must conform to an agreed set of rules. It makes life easier if everyone in the EU follows the same trading rules.

Of course now we are out of the EU, we may not have to follow these standards. But I bet the countries in the EU will want our goods to be at the standards expected and to carry safety warnings if needed.

"Plus since when did we ever consent to have the EU regulating our lives"

Which EU regulations are you feeling personally restricted by?

whatwouldrondo - I cant find a single benefit on your list that was only possible within the EU

^the facilitation of greater business opportunities - could be done outside the EU.

greater opportunities for EU wide Scientific collaborations - We could have had greater worldwide Scientific collaborations, which subsumes the EU.

shared political values - I dont think the UK does have shared political values, otherwise we wouldn't have voted to leave the EU.

opportunities opened up by the freedom to live and work in 27 countries - What country in the world can we not live and work in? We can even visit N.Korea, apparently!

I could go on...

Arf and the trade deal with Canada ( was it 7 years in the excruciating making) came within a whisker of falling through from a tiny place in Belgium

I bet a lot of countries in the EU are glad to get rid of the UK. Always complaining about things.

Most people, by quite a way, would choose a clean break

That's the problem with just about every leaver I have ever met, they are all convinced everyone else who voted leave voted for exactly the same reasons as them and wants exactly the same. My racist family are convinced there views have now been vindicated, proved by people voting leave who (according to them) all want immigrants booted out.

I remember Boris saying on TV on June 24th, that leave voters are not concerned about immigration and this played very little part in the leave vote. Farage has also said leave voters want to sever all links with the EU, although he did say differently before the referendum.

opportunities opened up by the freedom to live and work in 27 countries - What country in the world can we not live and work in?

Do you really think you can just rock up in any country and decide to live there?

That's the problem with just about every leaver I have ever met

TBF - I bet a lot of Remain voters probably think that other Remain voters had the same views.

Which is why Parliament needs to discuss it. "The people" voted to leave - well, 52% of the UK with lots of variations depending on the part of the country. Everyone had their reasons and no doubt some aspects of leaving / staying were more appealing than others.

Yes quite. Leave campaigner Daniel Hannan, (who seemed to be in favour of "soft" Brexit before the vote although it's hard to tell now) is fond of repeating that if anyone tells you the referendum was about immigration you're talking to a remainer. In other words, no Leaver voted to control immigration.

In which case we should all be pretty happy to stay in the EEA.

Do you really think you can just rock up in any country and decide to live there

Want to work in France? No problem, you're an EU citizen. Go ahead.

Want to work in Australia? Fill this form in, find a job that no one else can do, pay for a visa, have the right qualifications...

Spot the difference.

What does Brexit mean?

It means Brexit.
What does it look like?
Won't tell you.
Give us a clue.
Sorry.
Will you let Parliament discuss what they might like?
No.
What did the UK vote for?
Brexit
What does that mean?
Brexit
What Brexit do you want?
A red, white and blue one

Pretty much sums up the position so far.

missmoon Can you please provide a link to the data set you are using?

We have to follow the rules of all the countries we trade with - the EU actually discourages companies from looking globally.

Eu protectionism damages third world countries and leads to death and poverty.

EU rules on GM has condemned millions of children to blindness.

supermummy

I highlighted a business opportunity that was facilitated by the EU that because it wasn't exploited resulted in EU markets being exploited by US multi nationals with greater economies of scale than the potential EU partners had individually. Now all the revenue and jobs that could have been retained in the EU have gone elsewhere. I don't know if you have noticed there are a whole new set of economies globally competing for business, including China now the second largest economy in the world. I f we were not able to compete on our own in the 70s it is for a strong risk that having lost sources of competitive advantage like the financial passport and Science and tech that are benefits of EU membership we will be in a worse position now.

Research has shown that research carried out in collaboration with EU partners has a measurably much greater value added than research in collaboration with the US. This is because of shared values (the US tends to be carried out in bunkers and profit orientated) knowledge sharing, technological platforms and other networks the research is more effective. This has enabled us to punch above our weight in spite of the fact that our short sighted governments contribute just 1.7% of GDP compared to 3% in other G8 countries. So no we would not have that benefit without the EU

Last time I looked we were still a liberal democracy, or do you think a vote for Brexit was a vote for facism. I would agree it is a rising force in world politics, all the more reason for a united EU to stand up for liberal democracy. China actually backed Remain, in spite of a Leave vote being an economic opportunity for them, because they believe a united Europe is important for both global political and economic stability, or as they put it, Brexit is the proof that democracy is the enemy of good stable government.....

No you cannot live and work freely across the globe. If you have the money and skills needed you might be allowed to live and work in a country outside Europe but only after considerable bureaucracy (and not North Korea)

Gardengeek What exactly are you going to trade on WTO rules. It is not a matter of make it or provide it and they will buy. You have to make and provide something other countries want to buy, that they can't get cost effectively from somewhere else. At the moment the main areas of trade surplus in our economy are in financial services and science /high tech / engineering. All industry sectors that are signalling hard that they will lose their competitive advantage in the event of a complete break. Indeed are already suffering, and /or planning alternative strategies to shift overseas.

I have yet to hear a leaver tell me exactly how we are going to compete in the global economy after a clean break without reference to jam, smoked salmon, luxury cars and other niche markets that have no potential to make up for damage to our trade with the EU.

The US export many services, including financial, into the EU. there is no reason we will not be able to continue doing so, even on WTO rules.
Most EU trade has low barriers anyway, even the 10% of cars is less than the benefit now being enjoyed due to the low GBP/EUR rate compared to pre-brexit.