to share with you the croudfund link for the new legal action to stop brexit

[MarieBurnham]

www.crowdjustice.org/case/brexit-for-the-100/

I've only given a tenner, but there are plenty of rich people (unless it's all stealth boasting about dipique candles) here, so we should be able to help.

It's currently at 18.507k and needs 70!

[Deadsouls]

Anyway, the pledge that the OP posted a link to has reached its target with plenty of time to go. I expect there are many more funding pledges in the go with many thousands upon thousands of people willing to donate.
Congratulations to them.

[MangoMoon]

Thanks whatwould

And congrats on doing your masters and more later in your career!!

[whatwouldrondo]

Mango I just want to say as the Queen of procrastination, I can recognise procrastination by Mumsnet when i see it because I am doing it , go back to your revision!!!

And I still managed to pass my late career Masters, in fact a bit better than that. There is a reason that they say that education is wasted on the young. I am quite sure you will do well as well.

[Peregrina]

I can see why people who are born in the UK do get 'fed up' with people coming over here from Europe, competing for the same jobs, and the impact that has on them.

Well I honestly can't, because with limited exceptions in the fruit and crop picking areas, immigrants head to places where there is work. Those places tended to vote Remain. Places like the North East and Cornwall who see few immigrants, can't blame immigrants for the lack of work. They can blame government policies, but they don't. In Cornwall, they can blame second home owners for pricing them out of the housing market, but that is nothing to do with the EU.

[dreamingofLombok]

Blimey I don't think I have 50 friends full stop let alone 50 living and working abroad

[whatwouldrondo]

amispartacus We will see if we only need skilled people won't we? Or if we find that our economy shrinks and our ability to support our welfare state including the NHS, is undermined because businesses that were enabled by FOM go out of business because their cost structure becomes unsustainable or they cannot access unskilled labour at all or their access to skilled labor is mired in red tape (as it already is for non EU skilled workers)? From my experience of large and small businesses I really do not see this mass of British talent just waiting to step into these jobs with the same willingness to work hard and to deliver good service / productivity that has enabled FOM to underpin our current economic success. I am not saying that it has been perfect and there are not employers who have exploited the situation but I do think there was a problem with the British workforce in the first place and nothing has been done to address the sense of entitlement and the failures of education and training (in fact the reverse) .

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

OK, so what are you going to do about it?

I think you've missed my point.

[Cupofteaandtoilet]

Ah! I get it now Mango! Yes, they may have left school and gone straight into a career but that career has trained them to have very desirable skills. However, I'm sure they will still have had to jump through numerous hoops/paid varying amounts/completed time consuming processes and I still find 50+ a staggering figure. But I think we've moved on from this now so...

[amispartacus]

And you think leaving the EU is going to make life better for these people

Can you persuade someone why staying in the EU will make life better?

I can see why people who are born in the UK do get 'fed up' with people coming over here from Europe, competing for the same jobs, and the impact that has on them.

Yes, they can go and work in Europe. But what if they don't want to?

If they said to you that leaving Europe will mean that there will be less people applying for jobs in this country and that makes things easier for them to get a job, can people persuade them that freedom of movement is a good thing for them if they don't want to move?

[Peregrina]

No i don't think it will change a thing.

OK, so what are you going to do about it? Write to your MP? If he/she is as useless as mine, you won't get a reply. I suspect mine just hits the delete button when she sees an email from me. Go on protest marches? Does it make a difference? It didn't seem to against the Iraq war.

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

I was highlight an area which was pretty much neglected by campaginers.

Please tell me you can understand how someone can point out what they have seen over the last year, understand that point of view, while at the same time not agree with it?

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

And you think leaving the EU is going to make life better for these people? Once again, I am staggered at the fantasy economic universe some people are living in.

No i don't think it will change a thing.

[birdybirdywoofwoof]

Keep in mind that we have millions currently poor, resorting to food banks and working many hours more than they are paid for just to keep their own businesses open. People for whom making it to next week is a real issue, let alone to retirment.

We have over 60,000 people currently homeless with the death rate getting higher and higher each year.

These are some of the people who feel goblisation has done nothing for them, they are all but forgotten.

And you think leaving the EU is going to make life better for these people? Once again, I am staggered at the fantasy economic universe some people are living in.

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

Who exactly was whinging? If you are trying to get at me, you are wasting your breathe.

I had no idea you even mentioned pensions.

[MangoMoon]

I suspect Mango's friend's ability to work in other countries arises from their shared military background, which is another plus on a CV, not to mention opening up opportunities in places like Iraq

The shared background does mean that their networking opportunities are massive, yes, but they are not doing 'military work' in the sense that you imply.

They are civilians doing skilled trade stuff.

[Peregrina]

Yes, a statement of fact people were whinging about.

Who exactly was whinging? If you are trying to get at me, you are wasting your breathe. As it happens I have no desire to emigrate to Canada, Australia or Spain.

If you are talking about those people who already live in Spain, who were promised in the 2015 manifesto that legislation would be enacted for them to have a vote, but then found that it wasn't enacted in time, (still hasn't been) for them to vote in the Referendum, but now find that rug has been pulled from under their financial plans for the future, then yes, they have a legitimate concern. It ought to concern Brexiters too, just how well is an already overstretched NHS going to cope with EU citizens currently working in it, taking the hint that they are not wanted and going elsewhere, and eldery pensioners with health conditions returning from Spain and needing health care. Details like that don't seem to concern Brexiters though.

[amispartacus]

but neither New Zealand or Australia or Hong Kong have need of his skills so they were not an option for him. He is obviously now very concerned that the UK may be his only option

And if we only want skilled people here, then that's fair enough.

If we want free movement, then we have to accept free movement. If we only want skilled workers, then only skilled workers will have the opportunities.

[whatwouldrondo]

I suspect Mango's friend's ability to work in other countries arises from their shared military background, which is another plus on a CV, not to mention opening up opportunities in places like Iraq , that is not available to everyone. One of my family members, who went for an apprenticeship rather than academic qualifications is practicing his trade in France, he would have liked to have stayed in New Zealand where he worked for six months on a traveller's working visa, or gone on to other non EU countries, but neither New Zealand or Australia or Hong Kong have need of his skills so they were not an option for him. He is obviously now very concerned that the UK may be his only option.

China interestingly will only grant citizenship to you if you establish chinese ethnicity. Of course they will let you live and work there as long as you are of use to them but you have even fewer/ different rights. A friend actually went to a lot of effort to get Chinese citizenship, or rather his mother thoroughly enjoyed going to a lot of effort to establish their chineseness, and then realised that along with the permanent right to live and work there, he had earned the right to a bullet in the back of the neck without much due legal process......

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

It's just a statement of fact

Yes, a statement of fact people were whinging about.

[Kaija]

I'm not sure what you mean by that just. Yes there were lots of different reasons why people voted leave - I couldn't agree more.

[Peregrina]

No one was whinging about pensions taking a hit. It's just a statement of fact, that if you paid for your state pension for it was then 40 years worth of contributions and retire to Spain, you will get it paid at the same rate as if you stayed in the UK. If you go to Canada you won't, it will be frozen at the rate going at the time you left. I think Australia is the same.

So not only might the health care of the pensioners in Spain be hit, they might also find that their automatic pension uprates stop, which would be another reason for them to want to return home.

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

Plenty of comfortable middle and high income people voted leave.

And there are many reasons...

Let's just forget a reason why because you don't like it?

[Kaija]

Just, I think you have to take the left behind narrative with a pinch of salt. While there was a strong correlation between voting patterns and age/education, it was much weaker with income. Plenty of comfortable middle and high income people voted leave.

[MangoMoon]

It may stretch your imagination, but it is true nonetheless.
As I said, they have desirable and in demand skills.
(Not formally educated beyond GCSE in most cases tbh, not even A level, but with trade based qualifications gained as they progressed in work).

[JustAnotherSimpleOldNumber]

Lack of education, or laziness or racism or populism is onyl going to make up a tiny amount of the 54%.

As has been suggested on this thread There's a whole increasing section of society which continually gets failed, a section which is increasing year upon year, nothing has changed.

People may not think they saw any benefits of EU membership, but that doesn't mean they weren't there

The raminers didn't and are still not doing anything to highlight what the EU do for these people. not once did i see anything which highlighted EU funded scenes for mental health for example. I know they are there, but many don't.

Instead they were (and still are) insulting others. How will this help?