to share with you the croudfund link for the new legal action to stop brexit

[MarieBurnham]

www.crowdjustice.org/case/brexit-for-the-100/

I've only given a tenner, but there are plenty of rich people (unless it's all stealth boasting about dipique candles) here, so we should be able to help.

It's currently at 18.507k and needs 70!

As in, "leave wouldn't have got a majority without the old/unemployed/northern/pick your group vote" as if this has any relevance at all

The relevance is in asking why certain groups are more likely to vote either way. As has been said, it just shows how divided this country is - and this is what the referendum has shown - 52% / 48%.

I can't find the new study RTB linked to a few days ago. Does anyone have a link?

Being educated - in the sense of letters after your name is not necessarily the same as intelligence. Think about it - in the past only a small percentage of children did A levels and went to university - I did myself so I am one of the educated ones in my generation BUT there are many of my generation who would have gone to university if 50% (as now happens) were able to go. They may not be formally educated but many of them are highly intelligent and made a professional life for themselves and did much to enable this country to be the high skilled economy it is. But of course there are no stats to prove this unless you tweak the small volume polls you all keep quoting.

WrongTrouser, this is the percentage Leave vote by age and university educated (degree or higher):

Age group Degree (% who voted leave) Non-degree (% who voted leave)
18-25 22.9 43.6
26-35 27.8 51.7
36-45 33.3 55.4
46-55 41.1 60.8
56-65 41.0 64.5
66+ 45.8 66.3

So the impact of education is greater for middle to older age groups, i.e., the extent to which the gap between Leave and Remain is explained by education is greater for middle to older age groups.

The problem is that these statistics don't tell us much because a third variable (e.g., income or location) could explain both the level of education and the choice to vote Leave, i.e., it could be a spurious correlation. The results I mentioned earlier try to control for that, so I used a regression to calculate the extent to which education affects the likelihood of voting leave, after controlling for other variables such as age, income, employment circumstances, etc. In the regressions the results are expressed as the percentage increase in the likelihood of voting Leave. So in the regressions I find that there is a 15.8% higher probability of voting Leave for people who have a degree, after controlling for everything else. This is high compared to a 10% higher probability of voting Leave for people in social housing, a 12.3% higher probability for people who self-identify as White British (as opposed to other ethnic groups), an 8% higher probability for those who are retired (relative to working full time), etc.

I would be happy to give other data breakdowns.

I would suggest the older u r the more experience u have of the EU.

The bright eyed optimism of a democratic union creating a haven of equality 4 every1 when your young changes 2 a cynical rejection of a bloated undemocratic corrupt superstate, as you get more experience of the reality.

mollie Do not forget the gender perspective, that a disproportionate number of those in my generation, the end of the baby boomers, who did not go to university but would now, were women. Only 1 in 8 at my university were women now it is 60 :40 . I think when people talk about the increase in numbers going to university they tend to forget they are talking in part about a huge shift in gender equality. Sadly those same forces of gender inequality applied to the potential for those who did not go to university, or even those who did, to have played their full potential role in the economy. Of my peer group (and that from a Grammar School where we were groomed to seek equality by feminist teachers ) I am unusual in having had a career in business. A few more had careers in teaching or social work, most did not. I think that life experience is bound to affect your perceptions and attitudes.

supermummy

We've been in the EU for many years. I've spent my working adult life (28 years) as a citizen whose country is part of the EU. 28 years adult experience is quite a lot to get some experience of the EU.

I would suggest the older u r the more experience u have of the EU.
I have spent 43 years of adult life in the EU, which is probably why I voted Remain. Most of this country's problems stem from the behaviour of politicians in Westminster. All we will find after leaving the EU is that we spend a lot more money spatchcocking deals left, right and centre, which aren't as good as the deal we have now.

amispartacus Thanks for the education/age data. I will read it properly and reply later.

Hmm yes. My working life spans the entire period of our EU membership.

What has the EU done for us?

I have appreciated the facilitation of greater business opportunities, indeed my old company would now be a world leader in a joint venture with two other European companies if Margaret Thatcher had not handbagged it, so that now that industry is dominated by US owned multinationals. That company much diminished could have been providing many more jobs, with good career development prospects were it not for her free market dogma.

I have appreciated the greater opportunities for EU wide Scientific collaborations, and the amazing networks of added value that have been built up (swollen bureaucracy or actually adding mutual benefit? ) specifically both in terms of the treatments it offered me at a time when I faced a life threatening illness and the avenues of research that were open to my newly graduated DD, closed down now.

I have appreciated the role the EU plays in the rest of the world standing up for our shared political values, specifically to help developing economies where potential has been stifled by oppressive regimes like in Burma and Cambodia in South East Asia. I have been proud to see the diffference it made in people's lives.I will not be proud to see Pritti Patel trying to exploit that potential in the name of aid in a way that is already resented.

I have appreciated the opportunities opened up by the freedom to live and work in 27 countries including having had the opportunity to study with two leading world experts, now sadly gone to the US as a result of the Brexit vote (though now no doubt wondering if they jumped out of the frying pan into the fire )

I could go on

Things I know are not the responsibility of the EU, or immigration; austerity, cuts to welfare provision, and the failure of the Free School strategy to provide the needed school places , the failure to invest in and have a strategy for an education system that equips those who emerge to meet skill shortages in sectors from manufacturing to medicine, the decline in national productivity as a result of a failure to invest in infrastructure, a failure to match the increasing cost to the NHS of an aging population, tax breaks that favour corporations over "the people", the failure to spread the benefits of both immigration and a globalised London economy to the rest of the country .

None of this will be solved by leaving the EU, we will still have the same government, instead if we fail to protect the competitive advantages we have in the global economy as a result of the financial services passport and science and tech collaboration then tax revenues will fall and things can only get worse.

What has the EU done for us

There could be a sketch in that

To answer my own post, here is the new study on referendum voting that RedToothBrush posted about.

natcen.ac.uk/media/1319222/natcen_brexplanations-report-final-web2.pdf

amispartacus Thanks for the education/age data. I will read it properly and reply later

Sorry, that should have been to mismoon

As I understand it the EU is actually quite protectionist. I don't really get this whole hearted enthusiasm for free trade, I do think we need some limits. I saw Nigel Farage on Question Time the other night saying that we need to compete with the rest of the world and cut corperation tax, Donald Trump was saying exactly the same. We are just going to have a race to the bottom, the only winner will be big business.

Are you Andy's wife OP?

YY whateouldrondo

Don't know about an action to stop brexit, but nobody ever got to have a vote about the circumstances of leaving EU. Customs Union, Single market. There are quite a few little unions, I believe. Norway option or otherwise. Are people against the electorate having their democratic say on these things for the very first time? It may not be the choices of the radical ideologists, but it would be the first time the electorate could have a say on these things.

And stop whinging about the people having spoken on this. All 4% majority. The electorate got no choice whatsoever about the various scenarios. If the ref was a good way to decide non-membership, it is a good enough way to choose the variables in the scenario people want to end up with.

Don't be a patronising shit, OP

Its very easy to list benefits of the EU but there is no proof that we wouldn't have achieved them all and even more anyway without being in the EU. And don't forget its our money they are doing it with.

But when you balance all the pros and cons the people decided it wasn't worth it anymore. So we leave as we decided and then parliament can democratically negotiate a trade deal in the way it does all its trade deals.

I guess there is a lot of focus on what is good with the EU but remember all the shit it recycles. Regulating everything from bananas to blowing up balloons, like an OCD dictator. And once a month the £130 million European gravy train literally moves from Belgium to France just to be polite.

Seriously what is the EUgh doing to us!

the people decided it wasn't worth it anymore

What do you mean by the people ?

52% of people decided to vote Leave
48% of the people decided to vote Remain.

We are all 'the people'. Even those people who voted Remain are still part of the people.

Regulating everything from bananas to blowing up balloons

You do realise that we have regulations as well - and it's very useful to have regulations on how things can be sold. What regulations would you like to get rid of now we leave the EU?

Or do you think it's useful to have regulations and standards on goods?

(hopes supermummy mentions Boris and his bananas)

I have heard that although Leave won if people were given a three way choice between -

1. EU membership
2. EEA style deal
3. No deal at all, clean break.

Most people, by quite a way, would choose EU membership.

I think the only certainly about Brexit is that most people will be unhappy with the result.

What's the balloon one then?

The EU have said this:

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-698_en.htm?locale=en

number of recent media reports have made incorrect claims about the new Toy safety Directive, which entered into force on 20 July 2011 (IP/11/908). Several media have falsely claimed that the Directive would ban children under 8 from inflating balloons without adult supervision, because of the danger that young children could chew or swallow the balloon. Other inaccurate reports have stated that children under 14 would be banned from using paper blow outs. To correct these claims, below is the true scope of the Directive.

Clarification of the case: EU toy safety rules on balloons

Information reported by the media is not correct.

In line with EU toy safety rules in place since 1998, balloons made of latex carry a warning aiming to prevent children from choking or suffocating by from inhaling or swallowing uninflated or broken balloons;

Stronger balloons do not need to carry the warning;

It's a warning on balloons to warn against the dangers of choking on them. Is that a bad thing to warn parents?

supermummy

Go on, please mention the EU and toasters, kettles and vacuum cleaners.. I would love that debate with someone

Regulating everything from bananas to blowing up balloons, like an OCD dictator

It's when people who voted Leave use this kind of stuff as an argument that I struggle to take them seriously. So much of this anti EU stuff is made up and DELIBERATELY misinterpreted by the media and politicians. But the damage is done - and people who are anti EU just want to believe it.

You can just see people at home reading the DM and the Express and believing all this shit. Then writing columns about it in The Spectator.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-forced-admit-eu-7612519

Still, this is a post-truth world.