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Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

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Thread gallery
17
Mistigri · 05/12/2016 12:11

She's one of the pizzagate morons.

These people may be far right politically, but they are on the very far left when it comes to the bell curve. The stupidity is astonishing.

squoosh · 05/12/2016 12:31

Is pizzagate connected to spirit cooking? I would see #spiritcooking trending every so often but it seemed like definite wack job territory.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 12:55

Antonello Guerrera ‏@antoguerrera
27. PM Renzi met President Mattarella already this morning, Ansa agency says
28. Statement by Pres Mattarella: "Italy has deadlines that institutions must respect". Renzi resignation delayed?

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RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 12:58

It was called off, I believe.

'Called off' actually means 'never made it off the drawing board and applied for the appropriate measures to allow it to take place'.

In other words they never really had any intention of going ahead with it, it was a PR stunt and hot wind.

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TheBathroomSink · 05/12/2016 13:05

I was kind of assuming 'called off' meant 'it wasn't organised by someone who has a clue what they are doing so that NF could swan in at the last minute and claim all the credit without having done any actual work'.

I think they had the intention of it going ahead but only if they weren't required to do any of the boring bits where there are no tv cameras.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 13:31

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leaks-theresa-may-orders-inquiry-into-leaked-leaking-document-a7456576.html
Theresa May launches inquiry into how Government's anti-leaking document was leaked

In a letter to civil servants, Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood said the Prime Minister wanted to see an end to a "spate of corrosive leaks", only for it then to be embarrassingly leaked to the Mail on Sunday as well.

Sir Jeremy wrote that anyone found to have leaked sensitive information would be dismissed regardless of whether the leak compromised national security or not.

He went on: "The Prime Minister has directed that we urgently tighten security processes and improve our response to leaks. She has instructed that we begin this work immediately and expects to see rapid and visible improvement.

I hope this applies to Cabinet MPs as well as civil servants...

Especially since he then says:
"Ministers, Permanent Secretaries and senior officials set the tone in an organisation and no amount of process will make up for an environment where leaks are accepted. If leaders think they are the necessary cost of open ways of working they are mistaken."

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twofingerstoGideon · 05/12/2016 13:36

Boris Johnson was sent by Christ to get Britain out of Europe and fulfil bible prophecy.
Apparently.

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?
RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 13:42

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
This is a significant development in Parliament - Liam Fox WMS on UK Government trying to replicate WTO schedules

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2016-12-05/HCWS316/

UK’S COMMITMENTS AT THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION
Made by: Dr Liam Fox 5th Dec

The United Kingdom is a founding member of the World Trade Organization (WTO). In addition to the general obligations of membership, all WTO members undertake specific commitments in their goods and services schedules: WTO members’ goods schedules set out upper limits for tariffs and detail any tariff rate quotas, and WTO members’ services schedules set out commitments and reservations across all sectors and list specific sectoral commitments and reservations.

The UK’s WTO commitments currently form part of the European Union’s schedules. When we leave the EU we will need UK-specific schedules. In order to minimise disruption to global trade as we leave the EU, over the coming period the Government will prepare the necessary draft schedules which replicate as far as possible our current obligations. The Government will undertake this process in dialogue with the WTO membership. This work is a necessary part of our leaving the EU. It does not prejudge the outcome of the eventual UK-EU trading arrangements.

So Brexit was starting to look all squishy and now its gone all hard again

And neglects the obvious problems:

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
But process will require - agreement with EU 27 and all other 163 WTO members - knockon effect to our EU deals with 50 3rd parties(eg Korea)

including Argentina.

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RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 13:43

Do you think we can get a reporter to ask him to tell us which Bible verse Boris is referred to in, and which the EU is referred in. I'm curious.

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twofingerstoGideon · 05/12/2016 13:49

Ring him yourself, Red - his number's on his placard!

MangoMoon · 05/12/2016 13:52

Twofingers Grin

squoosh · 05/12/2016 13:56

Maybe Farage is one of the plagues referred to in the aptly named Book of Exodus.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 14:00

This morning's start to the a50 supreme court appeal, has been very dry, with legal commentators saying that the government has had a solid start but have so far failed to say anything of note that might really change the position from the High Court's

However this has just popped up. THIS is tasty.

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS
Labour table Commons debate for this Wed on "Govt's plan for leaving the EU"

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS
Looks like Govt cd be in trouble over Wed EU vote - with up to 40 Cons poised to vote with Labour for a Brexit plan

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RedToothBrush · 05/12/2016 14:02

Oh my. That's gold dust for comedians.

The fun they could have with that.

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Cupofteaandtoilet · 05/12/2016 14:04

I was listening to an piece on R4 this morning. It was about Nottingham lace and how much it is in demand internationally. They listed many countries that they export to, most of which were outside the EU. They didn't mention Brexit and there was certainly no implication that exporting to these non-EU countries was in any way difficult. I'm sorry that I am so ignorant in these matters but can someone explain to me why we need to leave the EU to sell our goods abroad when it seems that we do so already?

winterisnigh · 05/12/2016 14:07

two is that man the extent of the Brexit March today Grin

cupoftea I only came to this thread to say how much I like your name. Smile

TheBathroomSink · 05/12/2016 14:11

Why is he dressed as an elf? Is he on his lunch break from the grotto at a department store somewhere?

Peregrina · 05/12/2016 14:11

It's funny that - I thought the Nottingham Lace industry collapsed years ago and it was now nearly all imported. Still, I suppose if there are a couple of factories left, when once there were scores then their products could be in demand.

squoosh · 05/12/2016 14:13

I’m worried he’s a leprechaun but I have it on good authority that leprechauns are not for Brexit.

That leprechaun has gone rogue.

MangoMoon · 05/12/2016 14:15

Actual lol'd at your comment bathroom!

GlassOfPort · 05/12/2016 14:23

Regarding the Italian referendum, I agree with those that say the British press is over-simplifying.

Yes, many on the right voted NO because they preferred 5* and La Lega to Renzi. But I also know many educated, left-leaning, urban professionals, who voted NO, because they had researched the ins and outs of the proposed constitutional reform and were not convinced by what was on the table.

If you wanted to describe it according to Farage's view of the world, this vote was swung by the elites as well as the people.

Peregrina · 05/12/2016 14:27

But of course it suits our press to talk up the Italian result, because it fits the Brexit narrative. It would be much better to hear about how fascism has had a set back, in a country which has actually known fascism, but that doesn't suit the 'lets pander to Farage' narrative.

iwanttoridemybicycle · 05/12/2016 14:27

The elf/ leprechaun is dancing a jig now Grin

twofingerstoGideon · 05/12/2016 14:49

Maybe Farage is one of the plagues referred to in the aptly named Book of Exodus.
Grin squoosh!

PattyPenguin · 05/12/2016 14:58

Cupoftea and Peregrina, AFAIK there are no lace factories left in Nottingham. There is one factory in Ilkeston, Derbyshire, which produced the lace for Kate Middleton's wedding dress, amongst other things.

I believe people sell items made from material sourced from collections of Nottingham lace.

They're luxury products, and as you say, Cupoftea, it doesn't make a jot of difference to sales whether we're in the EU or not. I doubt whether we'll sell any more once we've left, so it's no good counting on lace to prop up our economy.

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