Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 11:17

Bloody hell where are we up to?

Trump is preparing for the White House. He has refused to give up his assets which will be a conflict of interest and maybe lead to corruption. He has just settled a fraud case out of court. One of the cases of illegal sexual behaviour has collapsed after the claimant was too afraid to proceed. His VP believes in stopping all abortions by any means necessary and beliefs in gay conversion therapy. He has appointed a white supremacist as his chief strategist. His attorney general is regarded as amnesty’s biggest enemy opposing just about all human rights bills as a senator. He has also been dogged by accusations of racism. His national security advisor supports torture techniques such as water boarding. These three appointments have been greeted with delight from the former leader of the KKK.

Man of the people, Nigel Farage is trying to undermine Theresa May and sideline the government by cozying up to Trump in front of a couple of gold doors. His long term intentions look increasingly wider than purely being about the EU and ever more sinister in nature. He is in danger of doing a rather good Moseley impression.

Meanwhile rumours persist of voter suppression and dubious election practices in several key states, which are hugely undemocratic and Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.

These are all things you are supposed to ignore, and are just expected to believe that everything is okay and that it’s the fault of liberals for standing up for discrimination and that this discrimination is none existent in the first place. Unless your Head of State is named Merkel.

But don’t worry, our Head of State is set to intervene though. The Queen is due to invite Trump to Windsor and is our secret weapon. Like Kate is our secret Brexit weapon. The cost of this intervention? A £396million refurb of Buck Pally. If she can pull that off, hell, let’s just send her to Brussels instead of Johnson. We might get some good will even if Philip drops a clanger about prosecco.

Back in the UK, the a50 saga drags on. The NI case now joins the ‘People’s Challenge’ at the Supreme Court, as well as new representation coming from both the Scottish Government and Welsh assembly. The government defence has changed, with one of the key changes has been to describe our rights under the EU as different by calling them “internationally established rights” and therefore different to domestic rights. They now say that they previously agreed with the claimant that a50 was irrevocable, their position is now that whether it is irrevocable or revocable is irrelevant to the strength of the case, effectively leaving it open for the devolved governments to pursue this line.

Previously it was assumed that this would require a referral to the ECJ. It is not necessarily the case. The situation is more complex as was outlined in a HoC Library Briefing. In this, it states a referral might be legal unavoidable as otherwise could be open to damages, might not be needed as the Supreme Court itself holds the power to decide whether a50 is reversible or not or that the Supreme Court does not have the authority to refer until after a50 has been triggered (which changes the dynamics of things).

Even then, it might prove to be legally possible but politically impossible to reverse, it might require a unanimous agreement to reverse by the other 27 which might enforce conditions in doing so.

Several senior Conservatives have called for the government to drop the appeal. Oliver Letwin, argues that it is might up the government up to being vetoed by the devolved assemblies, Dominic Grieve thinks its simply unlikely to win, and Edward Garnier has said it leaves “an opportunity for ill motivated people to attack the judiciary and misconstrue the motives of both parties to the lawsuit”.

One of the Supreme Court judges has been criticised for outlining the case to law students in a speech due to misreporting. In the speech she said that the referendum was not legally binding before going on to explain that an act of parliament to trigger a50 might not be enough and that the Great Repeal Act might have to be passed to replace the European Communities Act before we can notify the EU of our intent to leave if the defense case holds up before she went on to explain the government’s position. Another Supreme Court judge has been called to excuse himself after his wife made pro-EU tweets as obviously by nature of being married, is completely biased.

A former lord chief justice has now warned that Liz Truss has caused a “constitutional breakdown” and may have broken the law by failing to defend judges.

I’m putting money on the live video feed of the Supreme Court breaking due to ‘unprecedented demand’. This of course is a conspiracy.

At the same time a Three Line Bill for a50 is prepared to put to the HoC with the intention that the HoC and HoL would not ‘dare defy it’. Except the Lib Dem Lords are suggesting they see no reason why they shouldn’t table an amendment that ensures parliamentary scrutiny and have consulted a constitutional lawyer over the matter. The feeling is that, if they don’t do this, then what is the point of the HoL? At the same time, measures to restrict the powers of the HoL over statutory instruments have also been dropped. This seems to be a good thing given the timing, until you find out the apparent reason; they apparently will need these powers to enact the Great Repeal Act.

Elsewhere a who’s who of the right of the Tory Party – 60 MPs – back a call to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, whilst Hammond regards himself as the last voice of sanity in the Cabinet over the realistic challenges of Brexit.

Hammond is to deliver his Autumn Statement this week, which looks set to include tax breaks to those earning over £43,000 which Shadow Chancellor McDonnell agrees with. McDonnell of course has been doing a lot of agreeing with the government lately. Austerity looks unlikely to end. The NHS seems likely to as well.

Work and Pensions Secretary, Damien Green has been wetting his pants at the exciting opportunity to expand the gig economy. The growth of which I think few will argue has been a hugely contributory factor to feelings that drove the Leave vote. More Tory MPs have rebelled on cuts to disability benefits calling them cruel.

Liz Truss has had a riot from prisoners and a revolt from the prison staff in addition to her problems

Amber Rudd has been forced to admit there are secret files on the miners’ strike and Orgreave clashes which she did not take into consideration whilst making the Orgreave decision. Is that the faint whiff of a cover up? She has also had the largest victims charity withdraw its support from the child abuse inquiry initiated by May.

Arron Banks has a plan to ‘Drain the Swamp’ of British politics from corruption. This seems to ignore the incredible antics of Liam Fox and instead focus on some of the most pro-remain voices of Clegg, Soubry and Lammy. This happens just as UKIP have been accused in a EU audit, which Farage does not think are carried out frequency enough, that it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds improperly and may have to refund this. This is unfair. Apparently. In other UKIP’s news, the likely leader, Paul Nuttall, has said on the day that Aleppo’s last hospital was destroyed that he thinks Putin is behaving appropriately in Syria. Post-Truth indeed.

What we need is accountability for the national interest. Not any of this shit of blaming liberalism for the party political self interest of the last 40 years.

In light relief, Ed Balls might be popular at dancing but when it comes to leader of Labour he polls even worse than Corbyn. A fate only shared by Tony Blair. So it could be worse…

Anyway, I know there are few heads going down here, so I’m going to leave you with a link to a quote from Vaclav Havel:
www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/12/vacla-havel-index-on-censorship-ludvik-vakulik/
Vaclav Havel: "We became dissidents without actually knowing how"

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
whatwouldrondo · 22/11/2016 10:32

And whilst Governor rather than Ambassador, Chris Patten also broke the mould when he became the last governor of Hong Kong, and whatever you think of what he achieved politically, Fat Pang as he is known locally, was popular.

Peregrina · 22/11/2016 10:38

Chris Patten (Fat Pang Grin) had been a career politician who went and lost his seat - he wasn't an opportunist neo-nazi like Farage, who hasn't managed to get elected to Parliament yet, nor held a Diplomatic post.

prettybird · 22/11/2016 10:45

The problem with "NHS Cards" is the one that was mentioned earlier: it leaves the vulnerable - the domestically abused, the mentally ill, the homeless - even more vulnerable Sad.

Those that probably need health care even more.

What happens if they lose the card - or have an EA partner hide it as part of the control?

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 10:54

I would imagine that a significant amount of healthcare tourism is carried out by British emigrants who come home for free NHS care they have no entitlement to but think Britishness means they should get no questions asked.

Indeed. I don't just imagine this but know it happens. Every time the question of an eye test comes up on expat forums for brits in France (for some reason there is a shortage of ophthalmologists in France), someone will pop up to recommend getting it done in the UK and lying about habitual residence.

And of course many old people in Spain and Portugal return home for healthcare because they cannot navigateur the local system.

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 10:54

Navigate! Bloody iPad thinks it's french.

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 10:56

Cards could work, though. It would take some getting used to, but it would solve the expat problem. Anyone who has lived abroad in Europe will be used to the idea of a healthcare card.

whatwouldrondo · 22/11/2016 11:01

Peregrina I entirely agree, just making the point that the mould has been broken, and in both cases it was quite successful as a result, but a gurning dipso far right politician that hails from the 1950s and has neither diplomatic or intellectual skills is not going to a success for the UK or Trump. I think even Trump would get tired after Farage turned up to the White House for the nth time in his Union Jack shoes and striped blazer and drinks the bar dry.....

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 11:07

OK, the majority have been civil servants - certainly, looking at wikipedia, the 10 since Jay. Anyway the main thing is that Nigel Farage has shown no aptitude for either representing Britain or diplomacy.

He has now tweeted
"I have known several of the Trump team for years and I am in a good position with the President-elect’s support to help."

Yes - the really toxic team members.

It might be that the UK government will sink to getting advice from Farage, but that would be a sign of complete desperation.

Angela, help!

DoinItFine · 22/11/2016 11:22

Annie Angry Shock :(

That is outrageous. The poor woman.

Human rights bedamned.

and has been cynically 'protecting' the NHS from foreigners for a while.

The NHS needs protecting from Tories, foreigners are keeping it afloat despite multiple sustained assaults from our right wing elite.

EmilyAlice · 22/11/2016 11:22

Have to say I don't know anyone in our bit of France who goes back to the UK for treatment. Why would we? The service here is excellent. Yes we get eye tests done when we go to see our daughter. Some people may lie about residence for the sake of a £12 eye test, but we just pay it. You still have to pay for the glasses anywayh, but they are about half the price that the French pay.
I would just also point out that the UK is our competent state and pays France (or Spain) for our health cover anyway. The EHIC card for retirees comes from the UK. The only time we needed an emergency appointment in the UK we showed our EHIC cards and gave our UK National Insurance number.

whatwouldrondo · 22/11/2016 11:35

And that shows how crap he would be. We don't need an Ambassador who needs the support of the American President, like some child in the playground, especially since that President is a child himself and will soon get bored . We need somebody who represents the UK's affairs in complex matters of international diplomacy, and the national interest.

I know Farage has said elsewhere that because "the people" are sick of the "political elites" they do not care about issues like the probity, skills, intellectual ability and experience of the people they want to replace them but generally I think most want some sort of meritocracy. This isn't just mediocracy, it is idiotcracy.

AmberEars · 22/11/2016 11:36

Place marking

Peregrina · 22/11/2016 11:41

Does Farage ever do a proper day's work? As a MEP his record has been a disgrace, whereas some of the UKIP MEP's have taken their duties reasonably seriously.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2016 11:45

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon
Cartoon of the Year 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.
OP posts:
TheBathroomSink · 22/11/2016 11:46

Does Farage ever do a proper day's work?

Only if the definition of 'proper day's work' means spending a couple of hours in the morning bigging yourself up to anyone who will listen whilst milking vast sums of money from an institution you want to destroy, then fucking off to the pub for a bottle of wine, some port and 6 pints of beer before being chauffered home all whilst declaring yourself to be a man of the people and laughing yourself sick that they believe you and pay you to act in this way'

Unicornsarelovely · 22/11/2016 11:57

If the UK is going to plunge off the edge of a cliff as per your post RTB, I can't see how TM will be able to press on without capitulating on the four freedoms and ECJ rulings - facing a GE in Ian Dunt's scenario would be an absolute killer even with Corbyn in charge of the Labour Party. UKIP unfortunately might do very well, but an awful lot of the hard tories could lose their seats.

squishysquirmy · 22/11/2016 12:12

I have lurked on these threads forever and found them incredibly informative, hope you don't mind me crashing. Some of the links posted are utterly horrifying.
I think that the windfarm thing is pretty telling about Trump's priorities, actually, and how his business concerns are very likely to cause a serious conflict of interest.
One of his golf courses is in my neck of the words, and the planning permission over it was very controversial (6000 jobs my arse) - the way Trump conducted himself over the whole thing was awful. And then he threw his toys out of the pram when the Scottish government approved the wind farm. Within two weeks of winning the election, he's already using his political influence to push his business interests.
And anyone who thinks the sycophantic Farage would promote the UK's interests as an ambassador is going to be very disappointed. Trump doesn't seem to surround himself with people who stand up to him.

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 12:24

According to published accounts, the golf courses are losing money. Apparently the annual report mentions an economic downturn affecting the oil industry, in Aberdeen.

However, I thought these were supposed to be international resorts, not local golf clubs?

shirleyknotanotherbot · 22/11/2016 12:36

Apologies if this has been posted already:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38059623

How utterly soul destroying for those who have worked for and believe in this partnership.

Of course we knew this was going to happen - Trump does not want to be partners with anyone; he wants to be the dominant member of bilateral agreements where he can use US might to squeeze the little guy.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2016 12:45

Unicorn, I must sadly agree.

I do think there will also be a Lib Dem backlash under those circumstances too. I can see them getting 20 odd seats, maybe more which given their current situation and how they were wiped out in 2015 would be an achievement. Richmond will be interesting (though I think Goldsmith will win just still. There has been some private polling done by someone. That someone is likely to be someone not standing a candidate due to expense limitations (highly likely to be the Conservatives). The chances of that not making it back to Goldsmith's eyes are next to none, even if he doesn't have access to the Conservative's voter data base.

I think UKIP possibly have the potential to get a similar number of seats. Maybe more. I'm slowing working through each constituency trying to work out which are vulnerable and might change hands. Its worrying. I'm nervous. More austerity and a poor Labour leadership only makes it more likely.

It would leave Labour on less than 200 seats I suspect. But the Tories would also not be able to make a majority government. (Betting on a Conservative Majority is 54% to 32% on a Hung Parliament).

There is no chance that the Lib Dems would go into government with them. Nor the SNP who would hold all their seats and possibly take the final remaining Tory Scottish Seat. But they won't have enough seats to form government even with the remaining Labour Seats.

Which means it would be a Tory / UKIP coalition. This is why Farage will not quit the country nor properly quit as leader. They think they can win more seats without him as a divisive figure at the helm but he will still be leading it. It very much suits UKIPs agenda for May to make a right hash of it.

If you think its grim now, its going to get grimmer if Labour can't pull a rabbit of a hat and at the very least protect their existing seats. A LOT grimmer. And I don't think UKIP's MEPs don't just turn up because they don't like the EU. I think they are frankly workshy. And Farage wants us to be the 51st State (as I've said previously I was not joking about that).

Right now, I can't see a way out of it. No one else is taking control of the agenda. My only thought is that Trump has effectively declared war on the Murdoch Empire in his continued attacks on the media - including FoxNews. I can't see that going down well, and I can see that also being translated over here into a Trump backlash. And I'm not sure how long people will tolerate what is happening with the NHS. UKIP are known to be no supporters of it, but then £350 million buses work so god knows.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 22/11/2016 12:47

Only thing that might save us from that is Banks refusing to fund UKIP anymore or it going bankrupt.

For all the talk of setting up a new movement, he won't. UKIP are too well placed and well known for him to abandon now, when he's so close to the goal.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 22/11/2016 12:53

Btw, I don't think a CON/UKIP coalition will last long though.

We will just enter total political chaos.

OP posts:
TheBathroomSink · 22/11/2016 12:54

The Electoral Commission have announced this morning that they are investigating Ukip finances over the EU funds being used in the referendum campaign. The police investigation into Tory election expenses is still going on, but it is only looking at the Tories, not Ukip.

The Guardian have a good piece on the media coverage of Trump. Some important lines:
It’s not just the lack of access, mocking and bullying that can be expected from President Trump. There’s also the internal danger that the media will normalize his time in office under the cloak of traditional reverence for the presidency.

and

John Weaver, the former chief strategist for Trump’s Republican rival John Kasich, says he is outraged by media references to Steve Bannon, the Breitbart chairman who Trump has appointed his senior counselor in the White House, as a “controversial figure” or an “aggressive conservative”. “No, no, that’s sugar-coating. He was the publisher of the news site that he said was home to the alt-right, and that is code for racism and sexism and fascism,” Weaver said.

Swipe left for the next trending thread