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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 11:17

Bloody hell where are we up to?

Trump is preparing for the White House. He has refused to give up his assets which will be a conflict of interest and maybe lead to corruption. He has just settled a fraud case out of court. One of the cases of illegal sexual behaviour has collapsed after the claimant was too afraid to proceed. His VP believes in stopping all abortions by any means necessary and beliefs in gay conversion therapy. He has appointed a white supremacist as his chief strategist. His attorney general is regarded as amnesty’s biggest enemy opposing just about all human rights bills as a senator. He has also been dogged by accusations of racism. His national security advisor supports torture techniques such as water boarding. These three appointments have been greeted with delight from the former leader of the KKK.

Man of the people, Nigel Farage is trying to undermine Theresa May and sideline the government by cozying up to Trump in front of a couple of gold doors. His long term intentions look increasingly wider than purely being about the EU and ever more sinister in nature. He is in danger of doing a rather good Moseley impression.

Meanwhile rumours persist of voter suppression and dubious election practices in several key states, which are hugely undemocratic and Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.

These are all things you are supposed to ignore, and are just expected to believe that everything is okay and that it’s the fault of liberals for standing up for discrimination and that this discrimination is none existent in the first place. Unless your Head of State is named Merkel.

But don’t worry, our Head of State is set to intervene though. The Queen is due to invite Trump to Windsor and is our secret weapon. Like Kate is our secret Brexit weapon. The cost of this intervention? A £396million refurb of Buck Pally. If she can pull that off, hell, let’s just send her to Brussels instead of Johnson. We might get some good will even if Philip drops a clanger about prosecco.

Back in the UK, the a50 saga drags on. The NI case now joins the ‘People’s Challenge’ at the Supreme Court, as well as new representation coming from both the Scottish Government and Welsh assembly. The government defence has changed, with one of the key changes has been to describe our rights under the EU as different by calling them “internationally established rights” and therefore different to domestic rights. They now say that they previously agreed with the claimant that a50 was irrevocable, their position is now that whether it is irrevocable or revocable is irrelevant to the strength of the case, effectively leaving it open for the devolved governments to pursue this line.

Previously it was assumed that this would require a referral to the ECJ. It is not necessarily the case. The situation is more complex as was outlined in a HoC Library Briefing. In this, it states a referral might be legal unavoidable as otherwise could be open to damages, might not be needed as the Supreme Court itself holds the power to decide whether a50 is reversible or not or that the Supreme Court does not have the authority to refer until after a50 has been triggered (which changes the dynamics of things).

Even then, it might prove to be legally possible but politically impossible to reverse, it might require a unanimous agreement to reverse by the other 27 which might enforce conditions in doing so.

Several senior Conservatives have called for the government to drop the appeal. Oliver Letwin, argues that it is might up the government up to being vetoed by the devolved assemblies, Dominic Grieve thinks its simply unlikely to win, and Edward Garnier has said it leaves “an opportunity for ill motivated people to attack the judiciary and misconstrue the motives of both parties to the lawsuit”.

One of the Supreme Court judges has been criticised for outlining the case to law students in a speech due to misreporting. In the speech she said that the referendum was not legally binding before going on to explain that an act of parliament to trigger a50 might not be enough and that the Great Repeal Act might have to be passed to replace the European Communities Act before we can notify the EU of our intent to leave if the defense case holds up before she went on to explain the government’s position. Another Supreme Court judge has been called to excuse himself after his wife made pro-EU tweets as obviously by nature of being married, is completely biased.

A former lord chief justice has now warned that Liz Truss has caused a “constitutional breakdown” and may have broken the law by failing to defend judges.

I’m putting money on the live video feed of the Supreme Court breaking due to ‘unprecedented demand’. This of course is a conspiracy.

At the same time a Three Line Bill for a50 is prepared to put to the HoC with the intention that the HoC and HoL would not ‘dare defy it’. Except the Lib Dem Lords are suggesting they see no reason why they shouldn’t table an amendment that ensures parliamentary scrutiny and have consulted a constitutional lawyer over the matter. The feeling is that, if they don’t do this, then what is the point of the HoL? At the same time, measures to restrict the powers of the HoL over statutory instruments have also been dropped. This seems to be a good thing given the timing, until you find out the apparent reason; they apparently will need these powers to enact the Great Repeal Act.

Elsewhere a who’s who of the right of the Tory Party – 60 MPs – back a call to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, whilst Hammond regards himself as the last voice of sanity in the Cabinet over the realistic challenges of Brexit.

Hammond is to deliver his Autumn Statement this week, which looks set to include tax breaks to those earning over £43,000 which Shadow Chancellor McDonnell agrees with. McDonnell of course has been doing a lot of agreeing with the government lately. Austerity looks unlikely to end. The NHS seems likely to as well.

Work and Pensions Secretary, Damien Green has been wetting his pants at the exciting opportunity to expand the gig economy. The growth of which I think few will argue has been a hugely contributory factor to feelings that drove the Leave vote. More Tory MPs have rebelled on cuts to disability benefits calling them cruel.

Liz Truss has had a riot from prisoners and a revolt from the prison staff in addition to her problems

Amber Rudd has been forced to admit there are secret files on the miners’ strike and Orgreave clashes which she did not take into consideration whilst making the Orgreave decision. Is that the faint whiff of a cover up? She has also had the largest victims charity withdraw its support from the child abuse inquiry initiated by May.

Arron Banks has a plan to ‘Drain the Swamp’ of British politics from corruption. This seems to ignore the incredible antics of Liam Fox and instead focus on some of the most pro-remain voices of Clegg, Soubry and Lammy. This happens just as UKIP have been accused in a EU audit, which Farage does not think are carried out frequency enough, that it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds improperly and may have to refund this. This is unfair. Apparently. In other UKIP’s news, the likely leader, Paul Nuttall, has said on the day that Aleppo’s last hospital was destroyed that he thinks Putin is behaving appropriately in Syria. Post-Truth indeed.

What we need is accountability for the national interest. Not any of this shit of blaming liberalism for the party political self interest of the last 40 years.

In light relief, Ed Balls might be popular at dancing but when it comes to leader of Labour he polls even worse than Corbyn. A fate only shared by Tony Blair. So it could be worse…

Anyway, I know there are few heads going down here, so I’m going to leave you with a link to a quote from Vaclav Havel:
www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/12/vacla-havel-index-on-censorship-ludvik-vakulik/
Vaclav Havel: "We became dissidents without actually knowing how"

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Thread gallery
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Mistigri · 23/11/2016 12:34

Now this is good journalism (Boris fans, take note). An interesting take on the problems facing Hammond, notably the impact on the tax take if there are job losses in the City.

capx.co/why-britains-tax-system-is-dangerously-top-heavy/

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:35

Tom Mair found guilty of killing Jo Cox. That was a v quick deliberation.

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usuallydormant · 23/11/2016 12:41

An interesting speech from Guy Verfhofstadt in the EU parliment outlining how he thinks Trump and Russia are both trying to drive Europe. Funnily enough Nige wasn't at work to answer his questions on talking back control...

I have to say I am not looking forward to Breitbart arriving on the mainland in time for the elections.

twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/801384085180579840

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:41

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt
I'm already bored.

Hammond is drony. I am struggling to listen.

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:46

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Chancellor: OBR clear cannot predict the Brexit deal, but growth is 2.1% less that otherwise (i.e. Without Brexit)

Ben Glaze ‏@benglaze
Brexit set to cost 2.4% on GDP over five years

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:52

We lag behind German, French and Italian workers in productivity. It takes Germans 4 days to do what we do in 5 days.

EU bureaucracy obviously.

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HummusForBreakfast · 23/11/2016 12:54

Mistigri thats a very interesting article about taxes.
I'm wondering how other countries are fairing regarding the distribution of taxes.

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:54

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Debt peaking at 90.2% of GDP - that is a half century high, forecasts OBR .. (including BoE interventions) - similar level as France. Blimey - £30 billion deficit forecast in 2019/20, forecast as surplus of £10bn just in MArch - a £40 billion swing into the red

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Hammond announced £23bn New Productivity Innovation Fund over 5 years to raise Britain's longstanding bad performance...

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 12:59

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
So OBR is now not predicting a surplus AT ALL in forecast period up to 2023, and HMT has not chosen to adjust fiscal policy to get one

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:02

Fiona Hamilton ‏@Fhamiltontimes
Judge on Jo Cox: in the true meaning of the word she was a patriot. To her killer: you claim to be a patriot, it is tainted and toxic
BREAKING Thomas Mair is given a whole life sentence [very rare] for the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox
Judge - there is no doubt that Jo Cox murder was done because of white supremacy with links to Nazism

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:04

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Step change up in infrastructure investment 0.8%/GDP to 1-2% of GDP every year - all more remarkable it was the first cut in deficit plan
Chancellor Hammond, admirably clear on reading out the bad numbers in detail - hasnt always happened under previous Chancellors

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:07

Wentworth Woodhouse gets £7.6million grant for urgent repairs (as a dig at Labour)

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HummusForBreakfast · 23/11/2016 13:07

The difference in productivity is the reason why companies have no issue settling down in France despite the strikes etc...
Its also the reason why I have heard plenty of people from other EU countries despairing at working Britain due to the lack of reactivity etc...

merrymouse · 23/11/2016 13:12

I agree the tax article is interesting - practically, you can't tax people who don't have money. Whatever the rights and wrongs of taxing different groups, increased income disparity means the only people you can tax are those with lots of money which means you put all your eggs in not very many baskets.

You can argue about the pros and cons of taxing capital, but what do you do when there isn't that much income floating around?

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:15

corporation tax down to 17%
rule rate relief up to 100%
crackdown on whiplash claims (one which will fail foul of law of unintended consequences I'm sure)

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:21

Solution to the tax problem to me seems to be low rate flat rate tax without loopholes with relatively high threshold. Get rid of most of the costs of the taxation system by simplifying it massively. This gets rid of costs to businesses too so is a saving as well even if they loose out on tax a bit. Greater transparency and accountability as a result and its competitive internationally.

Its radical and of course will never happen.

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merrymouse · 23/11/2016 13:26

Unfortunately, attempts to simplify taxation are also vulnerable to the law of unintended consequences. Simple taxation systems can also have loopholes.

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:27

Hammond trolls everyone by making everyone think he's quitting by saying this will be his last autumn statement. Instead he is abolishing the autumn statement and making it an autumn budget with a spring statement which has made the HoC hysterical in its absurdity.

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RedToothBrush · 23/11/2016 13:29

You mean there would be lots of unemployed bookkeepers and accountants? People who can be easily retrained? ;)

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merrymouse · 23/11/2016 13:32

Yes, you would have fewer accountants, but not because the system was fairer. The loopholes would just be easier to find.

Peregrina · 23/11/2016 13:37

No, I didn't work at a World Heritage site, but same cr*p management, on the whole.

Glad that the judge in the Mair case has pointed out the links to Nazism. Perhaps a few more people in authority will start calling out Nazism when they see it, instead of blathering on about how we must allow free speech. Well, by all means allow it, but don't fail to tell the perpetrators that their speech is repugnant.

LurkingHusband · 23/11/2016 13:40

Part of the problem with taxation - possibly something the US suffers too - is the remoteness between seeing £x stolen out of your pay, and what it gets used for. Particularly when it's something ethereal like bank bailouts.

It's hard to persuade a Mancunian low paid worker that their taxes - which they feel they see no benefit from - are doing the country some good, when they read about another part of the country benefiting.

We're back to "me, me me" rather than fostering an understanding that there is a greater whole.

Maybe, in this post-fact world, we could start a rumour that the planet is at risk from a space worm, and we need to leave Earth. In 3 arks ? And I sure as hell want to know there's going to be clean telephones and a decent haircut when I get there.

Mistigri · 23/11/2016 14:03

low rate flat rate tax without loopholes with relatively high threshold. Get rid of most of the costs of the taxation system by simplifying it massively

This is trumpism which ignores the fact that in a low wage, unequal society, a huge proportion of the tax take comes from the wealthy. Cut taxes on those people, and you decimate public services or increase the tax burden on the less wealthy. (Most people in the top 10% of the income bracket cannot afford tax accountants and expensive tax-aggressive products: they pay their taxes like normal people).

Someone asked about other tax systems. I think that in most of Europe, the tax burden is weighted towards younger high earners, but if I compare the UK with France

  • NI is much higher and you can't escape it. You pay it on the whole of your income (it's about 21% I think)
  • income tax is low except for the very rich and having a family is tax efficient (our global family income tax rate on two good incomes is about 15%)
  • capital gains tax is high: you pay at your marginal income tax rate
  • there is a tax on your assets above about €1.3m (excluding family home).
LurkingHusband · 23/11/2016 14:24

One thing which vaguely floated into my mind when digging into digital currencies, and (more importantly) blockchain, is the sudden ability to track money from cradle-to-grave that we have never had before.

I have no idea what it means economically, or politically, but imagine (if you can - it is a bit mind bending) money that can change it's value dynamically, based on external factors. A multi track economy.

All I know is technically, it's entirely possible.

TheBathroomSink · 23/11/2016 14:37

Digital currencies scare me, although I'm not really sure why, but the finance minister from (I think) Norway was on R4 at the weekend talking about how they are planning to set up a digital currency run by the central bank, because at the moment people who want to use one have to go to private companies to do so, so they are excluded from the protection and regulation offered by a central bank.

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