The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good flounce, & a bit of trickery.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair & relax......

I think if the bully is a brexitter and wants to talk about remainers being "enemies of the people", who should be done for "treason", and "why are you doing on this thread", then you don't challenge them at all. EVER. However, if the bully is a 'remoaner' then you should try and hound them of the thread. Hope that helps.

Well said, birdy. That about sums it up. Surfer and her acolytes can sling insults around left, right and centre, but can stomach no challenge to their point of view and will accuse anyone with a dissenting view of being a bully and demand they leave the thread.

And the EU as an institution are fundamentally against anything other than a continuously open door, they refuse to countenance member countries having any sort of independent control.

This is why it became an in/out question in the end - the EU made it clear that you can't stay 'in' & have autonomy.
You are either a fully assimilated part of the gang or you're not.

According to the latest polling analysis of the referendum, link on the Westminstenders thread I think, only 15% of people voting Leave put the economy as a prominent consideration with over 80% concerned about sovereignty and immigration. Turns out they were not that bothered about the £350m on the bus and single market access.

Interesting discussion on the Daily Politics today about whether given the size of the UK economy and its unique leaving status it is indeed impossible to stay in the Customs Union while negotiating independent free trade agreements with 3rd parties. No harm in asking seems as reasonable an argument as any?

Red, white and blue Brexit...

I do see what you are saying mango but I just think the timelines are too long to be thinking we can change again if we decide we don't like what we agree now.

Tbh wrong a great deal of the stuff I read these days is things that have been linked to on RTB's threads.

I tend to get caught in rabbit holes when I then go to other links contained within them and end up reading round lots of stuff.

Most of my pre ref reading was Remain articles - I've been a eurosceptic for years & wanted to be convinced otherwise, but I wasn't.

I'm quite lucky as well that I've not got an echo chamber existence - more by luck than judgement! The people I interact with on a daily basis are quite diverse as I don't work now, I'm a student, and I've done loads of different things over the years so my extended friendship group are pretty diverse too.

This thread needs to get back on track and focus on Brexit - it's becoming too much about individual personalities which no one is interested in ( as fantastic as I am )

It's not 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' so let's get back to Brexit

Bear, most of what I post is just me thinking aloud tbh and I do sway back & forth with various things.
The only thing I'm 100% on is that we should be apart from the EU.

On the bullying point - me & you have had some long to-and-fro disagreements over the course of these threads (I have with others too, not just you!).
From a personal perspective I will argue the toss forever if I believe I'm right, and sometimes I will get tetchy & maybe be overly short or snippy, but I don't have a personal problem with anyone (& I don't take things personally either I hope!).
Does that make sense?

It does make sense and I feel the same mango.

We're never going to convince each other to change view point but it is interesting hearing what others think and why they think it.

"Brextremist'

Wtaf?!"

Oh, I thought you liked these special nicknames - people just love using the hilarious "remoaner". Brextremist not so funny?

Agree Bear

Which Nigel is better....?!

"We should be building a consensus on what people actually want our departure to look like but other than 'leaving the EU' and 'ending freedom of movement' too many Leavers are shrugging their shoulders about the rest of the details- paying to stay in the Single Market being one of hem."

Should be Bear? Who says?

This thread seemed a relatively light PUB atmosphere - with folk speaking as they find, until a few pages ago!

Why so intense? There's plenty of serious threads you could go on to build your consensus - why hijack this one?

inkata I meant 'we' as a country not this thread.

I didn't rake up the past which resulted in making this thread intense but it has moved on anyway.

The trouble is, this isn't a light jokey pub topic.

I do think we should be much closer to understanding how we will actually leave the EU after 6 months. There is also an unnerving pattern of TM u-turning or contradicting her colleagues on the very little that is said.

It's not going swimmingly so far is it?

"The trouble is, this isn't a light jokey pub topic"

Yes, if you start a thread about something which will fundamentally affect the rights and prosperity of all of us and our families, you really can't complain when people make serious contributions.

'The trouble is, this isn't a light jokey pub topic.'

It's all about spirit and attitude in a pub. A place where people don't generally get on their high horse. It's just about exchanging views - having a banter. Good ideas can come of of that - most often. I don't go to a pub to be talked down to or lectured to - or told what I should be talking about!

'Yes, if you start a thread about something which will fundamentally affect the rights and prosperity of all of us and our families, you really can't complain when people make serious contributions.'

Kaija - but this is a pub atmosphere. Maybe you don't go in pubs I don't know, but you don't have to always go on the attack when discussing current affairs. It doesn't have to be a ping pong game of tennis.

inkanta people aren't going to agree to disagree about this, and, when people disagree it's not always going to be cosy and nice- this means too much to those who are affected by it.

You seem to be another who just wants to surround yourself with people who think as you do in order to maintain your 'pub atmosphere'.

This is "a pub" atmosphere.

I think this thread is for leavers only, right? Maybe put up a sign up on the door like in the old days.

It's a public forum. Posters gonna post.

Anyway, how are we all feeling about Jacob Rees Mogg's vision for Brexit? Is this what people voted for?

...having a banter

Take at look at the beginning of the thread, Inkanta. Within a few posts, someone uses the word 'remoaner' and someone suggests putting the face of a prolific remain poster from another thread onto the dartboard. That's all fine. Just banter. But god forbid anyone dissents from the prevailing view.

You really can't pick and choose who posts, or demand that people keep to a specific 'spirit and attitude,' especially when - as Kaija says - this subject fundamentally affects our rights and prosperity.

This is not a 'pub atmosphere, Inkanta, not unless it's become acceptable for belligerent landlords to insult their patrons because they happen not to agree with them.

'I think this thread is for leavers only, right? Maybe put up a sign up on the door like in the old days.'

Well I like to think you can find common ground with those who have different opinions. In a pub everyone doesn't agree.

To be completely honest

Although i really 'like' some of the posters on this thread i really do not feel welcome in 'the pub' at all

I am appalled by Jacob Rees Mogg. I'm also concerned that in our desperation to do trade deals, we're going to end up selling even more arms to questionable Middle-Eastern regimes.

In a pub everyone doesn't agree.
In a pub, drinkers are not usually accused of being enemies of the people because they voted differently.