The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good flounce, & a bit of trickery.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair & relax......

(None of these deaths had anything to do with me btw!)

Actual lol'd at that!

Sheldon is correct of course - there is no stereotypical voter of either persuasion.
People from every walk of life, background etc voted both ways.

That's not true is it - about the voters on either side being from all walks of life, ages, etc. It's 'myth making', but if you find it comforting you go for it.

The Sleaford byelection is a better test than Richmond. Sadly I think it's v unlikely that the Tories will be defeated, although their majority is likely to be somewhat shaved.

People from every walk of life, background etc voted both ways.

While I think we can't categorise voters from either side as invariably being 'like this' or 'like that' and I agree that not all leave voters were over 45 years old or racist, I don't think it's completely true that 'people from every background voted both ways'. I think we would be very hard-pushed to find an EDL or BNP Remain voter, to give just one example. I think politicians and the media have been incredibly unhelpful in painting remainers as 'elitist' or leavers as 'disenfranchised people who wanted to give the government a bloody nose', or whatever else. But, the 'elitist' thing is particularly hard to stomach when trotted out by rich politicians like Theresa May, Boris, Nige, etc. about ordinary working class, low income people who voted to stay in the EU.

I concede your point about EDL/BNP not voting Remain!

What I meant though was more:
Socioeconomic
Education level
Ethnicity
Geographical location
Job sector
Age
Gender
etc etc

I just couldn't be bothered to type it al out!
(Lazy...!)

Although leave 'won' it was by no means so overwhelming that 'no one like me' voted the opposite way, and I don't think anyone can say that with any conviction.
(Apart from EDL/BNP etc obvs )

And vice versa, obvs.

Just read the transcript of the Sarah Olney interview doesn't come over very well does she

Julia HB? No she doesn't come across well at all

JHB never comes across well. Ever.

Olney needs to toughen up and get some media training. Day one; steep learning curve.

Olney is going to have to answer that question though she could have said it's a by election not a referendum can we move on please. Throwing her toys out out of the pram and leaving the interview was pretty poor it's the backup dartboard for her I'm afraid.

she could have said it's a by election not a referendum can we move on please.
She could have, and Julia HB would still have shouted her down, I imagine.

I am so torn on this issue, I aggressive dogmatic interviewing isn't great but panicking and running away is pretty piss poor too.

*I agree aggressive that should read

It's par for the course - she's in dire need of media training & she needs to toughen up massively.

JHB just followed a perfectly valid line of questions which was obvious in its inevitability - SO should have been well prepared for that, especially in the context of the way her campaign was fought.

The fact that posters on mn (and elsewhere) had an answer to the question mean there's no excuse or reason for her not to have had one.
What did she actually think was going to happen in an interview with someone who is well known to be an avid Leaver?!

The reason that interview went tits up for Olney is that her position is inconsistent and either ill thought through or misleading (no great surprise for a lib dem, who have the art of opportunism down to a tee).

She says she is going to vote against invoking article 50, but that she's not trying to block the referendum result. She blathers on about the vote to leave not really being 52% because of the turn out. Then she gets 50% of a 54% turn out (in a 79% remain constituency) and says that gives her a "big personal mandate" to oppose Brexit. She's all over the place, no wonder she couldn't stand up to challenging questioning.

nb I have no problem with people continuing to argue against Brexit as long as they have some internal consistency in their arguments.

She called for a positive case to be made for close economic links to Europe, and argued that she had a “big personal mandate” to oppose Brexit in the House of Commons and to push for a public vote on the final deal Guardian

Just wanted to add that whilst obviously not a fan of Olney, I am absolutely delighted to see Goldsmith lose - well deserved after his appalling mayoral campaign.

nb I have no problem with people continuing to argue against Brexit as long as they have some internal consistency in their arguments.

YY wrong, absolutely.

Wrt the Richmond result, i have been getting increasingly pissed me off with the 'mandate to oppose brexit' & 'evidence that people are now disillusioned with voting leave' etc etc.

An area that is within the London bubble, that had one of the highest Remain votes does NOT reflect the 'mood of the country' and never will.

Also glad Goldsmith lost.
His vanity & vastly overly inflated sense of self knows no bounds.

I linked to the JHB interview on the Westminstenders thread for anyone interested.

Agree with all your comments on this mango and wrong.

Best Brexit Tory MP comment I heard yesterday went along the lines of ... so a constituency that voted 70% +remain on a high referendum turnout is now only 49% remain on a depressed turnout - sounds like there is a fair amount of remain regret out there (sadly I was cooking dinner so missed who said it)

I know some one who is passionate leaver he said he was about to loose his house and if this happened before the ref it didnt matter which bridge he was sleeping under he would walk 100 miles to get the polling booth at 9am to vote.

However in my small circle I know wealthy leavers and remainers and vice versa.

A couple of NewsThump things that made me lol...

newsthump.com/2016/12/02/libdem-resurgence-hailed-after-tim-farron-wins-packet-of-maltesers-on-a-tombola/

newsthump.com/2016/12/02/remainer-starts-the-fightback-by-changing-twitter-profile-pic-to-eu-flag/

Haha
I like the 70 to 49 drop in Remain support detail that's actually given me a fuzzy warm feeling

Mornin', lovely one it is as well. Loved the Malster link, have I mentioned before that if there was a second referendum I think the result would be the same. Probably, but then I'm now totally confused.com. I thought if I voted No I was voting for leaving the EU, meaning; paying them nothing; deciding who can enter the UK and the end of EU laws. So why is someone banging on about paying the EU, letting anyone come in and unravelling laws far too difficult? Or is that just the papers making it up.

newsthump.com/2016/11/28/god-tells-theresa-may-hes-not-touching-brexit-with-a-bargepole/

Time for a sandwich and a cuppa tea – lemon and ginger please.

www.thetimes.co.uk/static/exporting-for-growth/trade-europe-post-brexit-world/?CMP=Spklr--Commercial--FBPAGE--TheTimesandTheSundayTimes--20161202-_-689545128&linkId=31804944

Interesting article written from a pro-Brexit SME's perspective.

Lots of pragmatic stuff on trade but the comment that stands out for me is that many businesses did not articulate pro Brexit views in the run up to the referendum because of the strength of the government backed Remain campaign. There was similar reticence from the Scottish business community to voice Independence scepticism in the run up to Indyref1 and this persists.

Just going back to stereotypes.

My London based black gay friend, male, young, very well educated, voted leave.