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Brexit

The Brexit Arms (temporary till the licensee get here)

990 replies

BoredofBrexit · 09/11/2016 07:27

Noise enforcement squad!
Where's the landlady? Surfer?
We've been advised of a a lock in and it's reported that the jukebox has been stuck playing Pulp - Common People - all night.

OP posts:
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21
MangoMoon · 10/11/2016 10:36

Just watching Victoria Derbyshire.

Tristram Hunt (Labour) & Philip Davis (Con).

Philip Davis with a northern accent & using plain language.

Tristram Hunt with his posh accent & using 10 words when 1 will do.

Phillip Davis pointing out how the Trump victory & Brexit is the wake up call for the politicians & liberal establishment to actually listen to the people they are supposed to represent and act on their behalf.

Tristram Hunt smirking whilst talking about how liberals have 'lessons to learn' about how to 'better get their message across' to the 'communities they were elected to represent' - (it's the voters 'not getting the message' apparently that is the real problem... Confused)

That is what people are fucking sick of.
They are sick of being unrepresented by the very people who are supposed to represent them.
They are sick of the only 'message' being taken by these people is not that they're not doing enough, but rather that they are not talking enough and are failing to make themselves understood.

The liberal metropolitan bubble dwellers didn't learn from Brexit and they're still not getting it now.

surferjet · 10/11/2016 10:47

Mail saying Trump win is a victory for the 'forgotten' white working class, & you have to agree. Labour/libdems hate the average white working class man & have done for years, so this is what we get.
Brexit here, Trump over there.

vulpeculaveritas · 10/11/2016 11:52

"Mail saying Trump win is a victory for the 'forgotten' white working class, & you have to agree. Labour/libdems hate the average white working class man & have done for years, so this is what we get. "

What a load of rubbish.

In fact I'd say that both the Trump and Brexit campaigns have shown even more disdain for the issues of the white working class. The reality is that this group has been effected by the neo-liberal economic policies pursued by the right wing parties in both the US and the UK.

It isn't Labour or the Lib Dems here that have been implementing austerity for ideological reasons ( and yes it is just ideology) and ensuring that the deepest cuts fall in the areas that need it most.

It isn't the Democrats who lowered taxes for the rich and cut government investment in the US. The problems faced by the white working class are certainly not to do with immigration either.

Yet the winning thing that both Trump and Brexit have done is play to the lowest common denominator, stoking fear of immigration, playing the "little guy" card, pandering to the prejudices and confirming their bias that yes the problem really is immigration or the fact that they have been abandoned by a liberal elite.

The truth is that the problems faced by the white working class lie almost solely at the door of the groups that they have just elected (look at Trump's track record on dealing with contractors for one/Boris's on business/Fox on free trade) and this was the only way that they could get into positions in order to move towards and even more unfettered version of global capitalism.

Its paradoxical that a group of people that are so firmly entrenched in the establishment have been able to galvanize the anti-establishment vote ( and it is) but they have done so, not because of any philanthropic zeal but because it is politically expedient to confirm the bias of these voters.

Pointing out that the reasons for the problems faced by the white working class outside of large metropolitan areas are not because of the old tropes of immigration and avandonment but because of the policies persuded by those who are seeking their vote gets you attacked as a "luvvy leftie" (in Katie Hopkins words) or "liberal metropolitan bubble dwellers" (Surfer) but these ad hominem attacks are used because they don't want people to think more deeply and critically about some very complicated issues, the easy answers are the best and because they further deepen the feeling of division they are extremely useful.

Neither Brexit nor Trump will benefit the white working class in fact it is most likely to be to their detriment. If Trump does roll back a lot of the progress made under Obama it will get very much worse for these people, the same here when what is a very right wing government introduces its policies and the economic impact of brexit is felt.

It is deeply ironic that Surfer and hosts of others keep trumpeting this a victory for the little guy and the white working class, they have just signed their own death warrant.

howabout · 10/11/2016 12:04

Perhaps if Tristan and co (vulpe?) feel they are not getting their message across they should learn to be more concise. Lecturing at people who are already not listening is rarely effective.

surferjet · 10/11/2016 12:18

vulpeculaveritas
According to you lot, anyone who voices concerns over immigration is a racist. You want to silence & belittle us because our opinion is worthless & irrelevant to you, 'our lord & masters'
The problem with that is it only works for so long, & once the ignored working class turn it's time to get out of the way.

surferjet · 10/11/2016 12:20

This is a revolution.

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 12:25

This is a revolution

Aww you guys would sound cute if you didn't sound stupid. A revolution? I think the closest you and your sycophants get to a revolution is possibly (gasp!) wearing red knickers on Christmas day.

surferjet · 10/11/2016 12:36

& you might be cute if you ever said anything half interesting.

IamWendy · 10/11/2016 12:38

Hey, something vulpeculaveritas said gave me a certain.... déjà vu. Her nickname is the name of a constellation also known as 'little fox'. Strange that.

I take it you did get banned then smallfox. I'll be reporting you so mn can look you over.

jaws5 · 10/11/2016 12:42

A definition of the famous working class man (it's always a man, isn't it?) would be welcome. Does it have to be men in a pub up North? What do you consider working class?
I work for a salary, was born in a EU country, have a degree (two, actually), live in London, married to a British man who is self-employed in a very up and down area. We are part of the "just managing" crowd TM trumpeted about, financially.

surfer and others, could you tell me (as your view of the world is so Manichean) if I am "working class" or "liberal elite"? Not as simple as Nigel claims, is it?

twofingerstoGideon · 10/11/2016 12:43

Get over yourself surfer with all your Brexit/Trump are all a 'working class revolution' shit. On the other pub thread thread you wrote: "Yes, I agree, most people I know who voted leave are very comfortable, well educated southerners." link to 30th October 19.22

I dare you to watch this video. These are the real Trump supporters whether that fits with your rhetoric or not.
New York Times video

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 12:45

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vulpeculaveritas · 10/11/2016 12:47

You are funny, see where I said that you make ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the issue? Just done it. I do think its fucking funny that you think voting for establishment figures like Trump etc is a revolution.

"Lecturing at people who are already not listening is rarely effective."

Again, I dealt with this, giving the simple answers, pandering to preconcieved prejudices is effective, give the simple answers even if they are incorrect.

twofingerstoGideon · 10/11/2016 12:48

Oh, by the way, my credentials are working class* (born in a one-room basement bedsit to factory worker parents, I earn less than the average UK wage etc) and I certainly don't need the likes of Farage or Trump speaking out for me. Furthermore, I would describe all the so-called Brexiteers and Trump as very much being part of the establishment.
*(seeing as class is so important for you, even though I don't buy your faux concern)

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 12:54

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IamWendy · 10/11/2016 12:57

I do hope we don't also have a sock puppet, cxc78.

BoredofBrexit · 10/11/2016 12:57

Cxc78 might be the poster previously known as smallfox sock-puppetting with vulpe

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jaws5 · 10/11/2016 12:59

all the so-called Brexiteers and Trump as very much being part of the establishment absolutely, it's embarrassingly obvious that Trump/Farage/Johnsson/ etc. don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, and were all born into rich families, had a privileged education, etc. Trump is the heir to a huge real estate fortune, and has still managed to go bankrupt many times. Farage, rich boy with privileged upbringing who, to use his favourite phrase about others "has never done a days work in his life". Johnsson, similar although he has earned a living by writing bollocks on the press. The heroes of the people!

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 12:59

I don't know what you mean love, I am just here for the crack. Sorry to say you are one of the dull ones though... a supporting act of sorts.

InfiniteSheldon · 10/11/2016 13:00

Ooh it's got a bit feisty since Small came back reported it too last time she posted IamWendy

I think Mango is making the same point I am although far more eloquently: it's no good to keep saying things like all studies show or quoting streams of facts. People are voting on their actual (or possibly their perceived experiences.) Bear, Vulpa and Gideon et al need to be asking themselves why swathes of the population think.immigration is a problem, why they don't want to be part of an EU Superstate, why they want control of their own borders and finances and laws. Our rulers need to be listening to the electorate not telling them 'the message' in more effective terms.

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 13:01

Cxc78 might be the poster previously known as smallfox sock-puppetting with vulpe

I bet you guys support quite a lot of the tin foil industry Grin

InfiniteSheldon · 10/11/2016 13:01

Ooh crisscrossed with lots of you there must learn to type faster

IamWendy · 10/11/2016 13:02

Of course you don't cxc.

jaws5 · 10/11/2016 13:02

Her nickname is the name of a constellation also known as little fox' you are quick on the uptake, aren't you wendy? weeks have passed and she's just made the connection

Cxc78 · 10/11/2016 13:03

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